7 ms·

What Manning Revealed

116 points by austengary 13y ago

nawitus 13y ago
I thought Manning should be addressed as Chelsea now.
- jonnybgood 13y ago
  Last name is still Manning.
  - ianmcstorm 13y ago
    Then Ms. Manning it is.
  - nawitus 13y ago
    Yeah, I meant "Chelsea Manning" instead of "Bradley Manning".
    - graeme 13y ago
      Did the title change? It just says Manning now.
tinkupandey 13y ago
And he also revealed that he wants to live as a woman from now on and requested everyone to start addressing him as Ms. Chelsea Manning.
res0nat0r 13y ago
There are a lot of bullet points there, but not many seem to be actual crimes committed by the USA. Isn't that what whistleblowing is about? Specific crimes related to the agency you are directly blowing the wistle on? Not wholesale release or everything you can get your hands on?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- d23 13y ago
  That's the main issue I'm trying to wrap my head around. Did he release the equivalent of 500 pounds of information and a few grams of it turned out to be bad? Or was it a larger percentage?
- terhechte 13y ago
  I had the opposite feeing so I went back and combed through. Imho it is 12 US crimes vs. 9 non-crimes. Sometimes I had a bit of trouble deciding whether it can be constituted a crime or not. Here's my list of decisions (a = crime, b = non-crime): a b a a a b a b a b b b a b a a a a b b a
  - wmil 13y ago
    "U.S.-backed 2009 coup" is really misstating what happened. First of all, the US was pressuring Honduras to re-instate the president. Next, there were complex constitutional issues. The US ambassador's opinion isn't more important than the Honduran supreme court. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_cr...
- grannyg00se 13y ago
  I think they're all things that the public should know. Unless it's crucial to national security these should not be hidden from the public. We should know what our employees are doing on our behalf. I think that is what whistleblowing is all about. It doesn't have to be a specific crime, just a revelation of behaviour that was previously being kept secret for unjust reason.
  - enoch_r 13y ago
    Do you think that diplomats in foreign countries should have any channels of communication that aren't monitored by the host government? I suspect that most diplomatic cables aren't classified to keep US citizens in the dark--they're classified because candid assessments of situations and personalities are essential to good diplomacy.
mtgx 13y ago
> -U.S. used threats, spying, and more to try to get its way at last year's crucial climate conference in Copenhagen. Some people here were speculating that NSA spying on the world means US will be able to blackmail all the world's leaders to do what's in the interested of US instead of their own citizens. Yup. Confirmed.
- timje1 13y ago
  The internet, one of the world's most powerful emerging resources, is largely routed through and controlled by US companies. It seems trivially obvious (in hindsight) that intelligence agencies would seek to leverage this to further US interests globally. One might argue that this is what the intelligence agencies were created for... (as a non-US citizen, I'm not praising or defending this state of affairs, but instead I recognise this as the nature of things)
- jmduke 13y ago
  How exactly did Manning reveal that? Can anyone provide elaboration?
- Zimahl 13y ago
  Not trying to be obtuse, but it is in the best interest of countries not to owe other countries favors or have skeletons that can be used against them. In simpler words - cry me a river that the US is able to use human rights abuses, corruption, etc., against you because, if not the US, someone else will. But the same goes for the US. If you don't want to be embarrassed by facts that are revealed as leaks, don't do what you did in the first place.
- grecy 13y ago
  > US will be able to blackmail all the world's leaders to do what's in the interested of US instead of their own citizens. I am very interested to see how much longer the world will tolerate this nonsense, before they eventually tell the US to fk off and get out of their affairs. Obviously Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, etc. are doing it, but I really want to see a whole stack (all?) of the OECD countries stand together and make the US irrelevant. I think it would be pretty effective if they all agreed to sever all trade with the US, and stop using the US dollar for anything (gold, oil) etc. This can't continue.
nutate 13y ago
Wow and so far the death toll from the Arab Spring is only ~127,000... there's a long way to go until it matches Afghanistan + Iraq. Perhaps before he's out he'll make that grim milestone. Not to say that he is responsible, only that the chaos introduced by his massive classified data expose contributed to uncorking that unrest. And to think, he was hoping to stop war.
seoguru 13y ago
another list: http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/21/what-bradley-manning-revealed/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/21/what-bradley-manning-...

116 points by austengary 13y ago

nawitus 13y ago

I thought Manning should be addressed as Chelsea now.

jonnybgood 13y ago
Last name is still Manning.
- ianmcstorm 13y ago
  Then Ms. Manning it is.
- nawitus 13y ago
  Yeah, I meant "Chelsea Manning" instead of "Bradley Manning".
  - graeme 13y ago
    Did the title change? It just says Manning now.

tinkupandey 13y ago

And he also revealed that he wants to live as a woman from now on and requested everyone to start addressing him as Ms. Chelsea Manning.

res0nat0r 13y ago

There are a lot of bullet points there, but not many seem to be actual crimes committed by the USA. Isn't that what whistleblowing is about? Specific crimes related to the agency you are directly blowing the wistle on? Not wholesale release or everything you can get your hands on?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
d23 13y ago
That's the main issue I'm trying to wrap my head around. Did he release the equivalent of 500 pounds of information and a few grams of it turned out to be bad? Or was it a larger percentage?
terhechte 13y ago
I had the opposite feeing so I went back and combed through. Imho it is 12 US crimes vs. 9 non-crimes. Sometimes I had a bit of trouble deciding whether it can be constituted a crime or not. Here's my list of decisions (a = crime, b = non-crime): a b a a a b a b a b b b a b a a a a b b a
- wmil 13y ago
  "U.S.-backed 2009 coup" is really misstating what happened. First of all, the US was pressuring Honduras to re-instate the president. Next, there were complex constitutional issues. The US ambassador's opinion isn't more important than the Honduran supreme court. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_cr...
grannyg00se 13y ago
I think they're all things that the public should know. Unless it's crucial to national security these should not be hidden from the public. We should know what our employees are doing on our behalf. I think that is what whistleblowing is all about. It doesn't have to be a specific crime, just a revelation of behaviour that was previously being kept secret for unjust reason.
- enoch_r 13y ago
  Do you think that diplomats in foreign countries should have any channels of communication that aren't monitored by the host government? I suspect that most diplomatic cables aren't classified to keep US citizens in the dark--they're classified because candid assessments of situations and personalities are essential to good diplomacy.

mtgx 13y ago

> -U.S. used threats, spying, and more to try to get its way at last year's crucial climate conference in Copenhagen. Some people here were speculating that NSA spying on the world means US will be able to blackmail all the world's leaders to do what's in the interested of US instead of their own citizens. Yup. Confirmed.

timje1 13y ago
The internet, one of the world's most powerful emerging resources, is largely routed through and controlled by US companies. It seems trivially obvious (in hindsight) that intelligence agencies would seek to leverage this to further US interests globally. One might argue that this is what the intelligence agencies were created for... (as a non-US citizen, I'm not praising or defending this state of affairs, but instead I recognise this as the nature of things)
jmduke 13y ago
How exactly did Manning reveal that? Can anyone provide elaboration?
Zimahl 13y ago
Not trying to be obtuse, but it is in the best interest of countries not to owe other countries favors or have skeletons that can be used against them. In simpler words - cry me a river that the US is able to use human rights abuses, corruption, etc., against you because, if not the US, someone else will. But the same goes for the US. If you don't want to be embarrassed by facts that are revealed as leaks, don't do what you did in the first place.
grecy 13y ago
> US will be able to blackmail all the world's leaders to do what's in the interested of US instead of their own citizens. I am very interested to see how much longer the world will tolerate this nonsense, before they eventually tell the US to fk off and get out of their affairs. Obviously Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, etc. are doing it, but I really want to see a whole stack (all?) of the OECD countries stand together and make the US irrelevant. I think it would be pretty effective if they all agreed to sever all trade with the US, and stop using the US dollar for anything (gold, oil) etc. This can't continue.

nutate 13y ago

Wow and so far the death toll from the Arab Spring is only ~127,000... there's a long way to go until it matches Afghanistan + Iraq. Perhaps before he's out he'll make that grim milestone. Not to say that he is responsible, only that the chaos introduced by his massive classified data expose contributed to uncorking that unrest. And to think, he was hoping to stop war.

seoguru 13y ago

another list: http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/21/what-bradley-manning-revealed/ http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/21/what-bradley-manning-...