4 ms·

That would be impossible in the UK. Salary is paid directly into one's bank account and tax is deducted before it even gets there.

by Cakez0r 13y ago

snitko 13y ago
Ask your employer if he can pay you in cash or Bitcoin off the record. If you're a business, sell for bitcoins and give discounts, certainly pay employees in Bitcoin if they ask you to. As far as I know, there's currently no law that requires you to pay taxes on bitcoins earned. Even if there was, it'd be prohibitively expensive for government to track everyone's Bitcoin addresses (data mining on the blockchain is certainly possible, but a great deal more difficult than reading your emails, I suppose).
- Cakez0r 13y ago
  That could work if you were a freelancer (although it would make life significantly more complicated). However, no established employer would agree to pay cash or bitcoin. It'd be highly illegal and no business would want to take that risk. Aside from that, you'd still need a way to convert bitcoins to cash, which involves the money running through a bank account. It would turn in to an elaborate fraud operation.
  - snitko 13y ago
    As I said in reply to swombat, if you can't switch to cash, gold and Bitcoin completely, then at least keep your savings in either gold or Bitcoin. That alone might make a significant difference both to you and to society at large.
- swombat 13y ago
  As a UK employer, that'd be a straight ticket to an HMRC investigation and severe penalties, possibly jail. Employing people illegally, "off the books", is treated as a serious thing here.
  - snitko 13y ago
    Ok, got it. Then just keep your savings in gold or Bitcoin. Even if half the population did just that, the government would be shitting bricks already.
    - Cakez0r 13y ago
      But as long as it passes through your bank account, the tax has already been paid. I could convert all my savings to gold or bitcoin, but the government has already had their slice by the time that happens, which wouldn't be much of a protest at all. EDIT: To clarify for non-UK residents (I'm not sure how it works in other countries), everything in the UK is fundamentally tied to your bank account. Your wages go directly to your bank. Your bills come directly out of your bank account via payment agreements that are set up with your bank and the 3rd party (see Direct Debit). There's no real way you can be paid in cash and pay your bills in cash. The essence of fraud is finding loopholes that allow you to move cash outside of the system. Those loopholes are intrinsically not common knowledge, otherwise they'd be closed.
      - snitko 13y ago
        > the tax has already been paid Not so. Inflation is yet another tax you'll be paying if you keep your money in a bank. Inflation is a huge thing for governments. Without inflation, they'd be out of so many opportunities to finance various things and the fraudulent financial system governments run would be instantly exposed. Then you would also have to remember that if you keep your savings in Bitcoin, you can pay for other products and services with them directly. And taxes would be paid only by a company that at some point decides to convert Bitcoins to fiat. That is, if you are A then your bitcoins may be in a chain of payments A -> B -> C. Obviously A (you) paid taxes, C would also have to pay taxes when he converts them to fiat. But because B decides to spend bitcoins earned from you directly by purchasing things from C, taxes are not paid from that deal.
        swombat 13y ago
        Bitcoin has a lot of volatility. I'd rather take a steady 2-4% cut every year than an unpredictable swing that could take out 95% of my savings overnight.
- Nursie 13y ago
  >>As far as I know, there's currently no law that requires you to pay taxes on bitcoins earned. Tax is payable on anything earned. This is an invitation to arrest and tax evasion charges. BTC is also a fundamentally bad idea for an economy.
agilebyte 13y ago
You can let someone in a tax neutral country setup a UK corporation and then get a letter from HMRC stating that the company is not tax resident in the UK. Then you could persuade your employer to pay this corporation for services rendered. Of course, the heart of the company would still be with you and if you are resident in the UK, you are doing something illegal.

That would be impossible in the UK. Salary is paid directly into one's bank account and tax is deducted before it even gets there.

by Cakez0r 13y ago

That would be impossible in the UK. Salary is paid directly into one's bank account and tax is deducted before it even gets there.

snitko 13y ago

Ask your employer if he can pay you in cash or Bitcoin off the record. If you're a business, sell for bitcoins and give discounts, certainly pay employees in Bitcoin if they ask you to. As far as I know, there's currently no law that requires you to pay taxes on bitcoins earned. Even if there was, it'd be prohibitively expensive for government to track everyone's Bitcoin addresses (data mining on the blockchain is certainly possible, but a great deal more difficult than reading your emails, I suppose).

Cakez0r 13y ago
That could work if you were a freelancer (although it would make life significantly more complicated). However, no established employer would agree to pay cash or bitcoin. It'd be highly illegal and no business would want to take that risk. Aside from that, you'd still need a way to convert bitcoins to cash, which involves the money running through a bank account. It would turn in to an elaborate fraud operation.
- snitko 13y ago
  As I said in reply to swombat, if you can't switch to cash, gold and Bitcoin completely, then at least keep your savings in either gold or Bitcoin. That alone might make a significant difference both to you and to society at large.
swombat 13y ago
As a UK employer, that'd be a straight ticket to an HMRC investigation and severe penalties, possibly jail. Employing people illegally, "off the books", is treated as a serious thing here.
- snitko 13y ago
  Ok, got it. Then just keep your savings in gold or Bitcoin. Even if half the population did just that, the government would be shitting bricks already.
  - Cakez0r 13y ago
    But as long as it passes through your bank account, the tax has already been paid. I could convert all my savings to gold or bitcoin, but the government has already had their slice by the time that happens, which wouldn't be much of a protest at all. EDIT: To clarify for non-UK residents (I'm not sure how it works in other countries), everything in the UK is fundamentally tied to your bank account. Your wages go directly to your bank. Your bills come directly out of your bank account via payment agreements that are set up with your bank and the 3rd party (see Direct Debit). There's no real way you can be paid in cash and pay your bills in cash. The essence of fraud is finding loopholes that allow you to move cash outside of the system. Those loopholes are intrinsically not common knowledge, otherwise they'd be closed.
    - snitko 13y ago
      > the tax has already been paid Not so. Inflation is yet another tax you'll be paying if you keep your money in a bank. Inflation is a huge thing for governments. Without inflation, they'd be out of so many opportunities to finance various things and the fraudulent financial system governments run would be instantly exposed. Then you would also have to remember that if you keep your savings in Bitcoin, you can pay for other products and services with them directly. And taxes would be paid only by a company that at some point decides to convert Bitcoins to fiat. That is, if you are A then your bitcoins may be in a chain of payments A -> B -> C. Obviously A (you) paid taxes, C would also have to pay taxes when he converts them to fiat. But because B decides to spend bitcoins earned from you directly by purchasing things from C, taxes are not paid from that deal.
      - swombat 13y ago
        Bitcoin has a lot of volatility. I'd rather take a steady 2-4% cut every year than an unpredictable swing that could take out 95% of my savings overnight.
Nursie 13y ago
>>As far as I know, there's currently no law that requires you to pay taxes on bitcoins earned. Tax is payable on anything earned. This is an invitation to arrest and tax evasion charges. BTC is also a fundamentally bad idea for an economy.

agilebyte 13y ago

You can let someone in a tax neutral country setup a UK corporation and then get a letter from HMRC stating that the company is not tax resident in the UK. Then you could persuade your employer to pay this corporation for services rendered. Of course, the heart of the company would still be with you and if you are resident in the UK, you are doing something illegal.