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If anyone knew the most effective way for us UK citizens to stop our government from making irreversible constitutional mistakes I would be highly grateful for

If anyone knew the most effective way for us UK citizens to stop our government from making irreversible constitutional mistakes I would be highly grateful for the information.

Yaa101 13y ago
Go with pitchforks to the city council to start with. With other words, stop being afraid and take the risk to be attacked by security forces. That is the only way.
- pjc50 13y ago
  Solidarity first: find a whole load of people to go with, otherwise your "take the risk to be attacked by security forces" is just "suicide by cop". You cannot do this as a large number of independant individuals. You need an organisation, or several; and yes, that means politics and compromise and all the other things about working with people.
  - tlarkworthy 13y ago
    Do we have an organisation?
gnerd 13y ago
Well I suppose we could start by having a written constitution rather than a uncodified constitution, otherwise, it seems to me, once they bring in legal measures as acts and statutes and then the public gets used to an idea, it is not long before it gets baked into case law and then we're as good as fucked once it is accepted as common law. Other than that, I suppose we could cross our fingers and hope for the best, like we did in the days before we had a constitutional monarchy, we would cross our fingers and hope we wouldn't get a shitty king. Well we don't need protection from our monarchs (as far as I can tell), we now are in dire need of protection from our government (and other "friendly" governments by extension). Our customs and traditions have done well for us, its amazing to me we got this far, but maybe its time to get a bit more serious about our protections of rights and have them baked into common law. I suppose there is a bit of irony that the protections we now seek from those who govern us are actually baked into the EU, but our country seems to be half in and half out (I'm a little angered I have to have cookie warnings on my web properties because of EU directives and yet my basic little right to privacy my grandparents generation helped put into the UN is not even taken seriously, never mind the EU equivalents).
- JulianMorrison 13y ago
  We could start with having a constitution written by rebel political idealists in the 19th century, rather than written by exactly the same kind of government insiders we'd want it to protect us against in the 21st. If they wrote a constitution now, it would suck (they did, it's the EU constitution, and it sucks).
  - gnerd 13y ago
    You're not wrong. In my opinion, all constitutions suck. They are, after all, the proverbial horse designed by committee. But its better than nothing right? South Africa probably has the most liberal constitution in the world, that makes sense, it was drafted in modern times so takes into account modern problems like fairness and equality of homosexuals or transgender people. But in practise, I would personally doubt the same constitution is enforced to the same standards as say, Iceland (also a country with a modern constitution). The US, must have the gold standard of constitutions and there are arguments over if the right to bare arms meant semi-automatic weapons or just muskets. Does the 4th amendment just apply to physical property and letters or digital communications too? There is no perfect constitution, it is impossible. I don't agree with everything in the EU standards of law, but that's the sad thing, it is better than what we have now. The Germans have more protections than I do, for standards of rights our country authored and pushed on the world (with the US of course) in response to things like WW2. Its unacceptable, I would personally rather have dog shit protections than none at all.
- tlarkworthy 13y ago
  exactly, we need to roll back the terror laws now while its still possible.
TeMPOraL 13y ago
Rewatch "V for Vendetta" and apply.
- Cakez0r 13y ago
  Whenever I've asked this same question, there are always a few who say "stop being complacent, get out and become an anarchist" but that is completely unfeasible for most individuals. Becoming a radical requires a complete and fundamental lifestyle change. That's not something that the general population can get on board with. I'm yet to find a good way to incite change without having to dedicate your life to a cause. Like the OP, I'm open to suggestions.
  - hyperventilator 13y ago
    Only unhappy men volunteer for war.
- Nursie 13y ago
  V is a cartoon, not really a serious discussion or useful guide to much. IMHO.
MisterWebz 13y ago
We need to concentrate our efforts. We can't just go out into the streets and complain about a myriad of issues. An organization like EFF is too broad. We need groups that each focus on one issue only.
7952 13y ago
Supporting Liberty [1] could be a good starting point. These are plain old human rights and civil liberty issues. [1] http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/index.php http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/index.php

If anyone knew the most effective way for us UK citizens to stop our government from making irreversible constitutional mistakes I would be highly grateful for the information.

Yaa101 13y ago

Go with pitchforks to the city council to start with. With other words, stop being afraid and take the risk to be attacked by security forces. That is the only way.

pjc50 13y ago
Solidarity first: find a whole load of people to go with, otherwise your "take the risk to be attacked by security forces" is just "suicide by cop". You cannot do this as a large number of independant individuals. You need an organisation, or several; and yes, that means politics and compromise and all the other things about working with people.
- tlarkworthy 13y ago
  Do we have an organisation?

gnerd 13y ago

Well I suppose we could start by having a written constitution rather than a uncodified constitution, otherwise, it seems to me, once they bring in legal measures as acts and statutes and then the public gets used to an idea, it is not long before it gets baked into case law and then we're as good as fucked once it is accepted as common law. Other than that, I suppose we could cross our fingers and hope for the best, like we did in the days before we had a constitutional monarchy, we would cross our fingers and hope we wouldn't get a shitty king. Well we don't need protection from our monarchs (as far as I can tell), we now are in dire need of protection from our government (and other "friendly" governments by extension). Our customs and traditions have done well for us, its amazing to me we got this far, but maybe its time to get a bit more serious about our protections of rights and have them baked into common law. I suppose there is a bit of irony that the protections we now seek from those who govern us are actually baked into the EU, but our country seems to be half in and half out (I'm a little angered I have to have cookie warnings on my web properties because of EU directives and yet my basic little right to privacy my grandparents generation helped put into the UN is not even taken seriously, never mind the EU equivalents).

JulianMorrison 13y ago
We could start with having a constitution written by rebel political idealists in the 19th century, rather than written by exactly the same kind of government insiders we'd want it to protect us against in the 21st. If they wrote a constitution now, it would suck (they did, it's the EU constitution, and it sucks).
- gnerd 13y ago
  You're not wrong. In my opinion, all constitutions suck. They are, after all, the proverbial horse designed by committee. But its better than nothing right? South Africa probably has the most liberal constitution in the world, that makes sense, it was drafted in modern times so takes into account modern problems like fairness and equality of homosexuals or transgender people. But in practise, I would personally doubt the same constitution is enforced to the same standards as say, Iceland (also a country with a modern constitution). The US, must have the gold standard of constitutions and there are arguments over if the right to bare arms meant semi-automatic weapons or just muskets. Does the 4th amendment just apply to physical property and letters or digital communications too? There is no perfect constitution, it is impossible. I don't agree with everything in the EU standards of law, but that's the sad thing, it is better than what we have now. The Germans have more protections than I do, for standards of rights our country authored and pushed on the world (with the US of course) in response to things like WW2. Its unacceptable, I would personally rather have dog shit protections than none at all.
tlarkworthy 13y ago
exactly, we need to roll back the terror laws now while its still possible.

TeMPOraL 13y ago

Rewatch "V for Vendetta" and apply.

Cakez0r 13y ago
Whenever I've asked this same question, there are always a few who say "stop being complacent, get out and become an anarchist" but that is completely unfeasible for most individuals. Becoming a radical requires a complete and fundamental lifestyle change. That's not something that the general population can get on board with. I'm yet to find a good way to incite change without having to dedicate your life to a cause. Like the OP, I'm open to suggestions.
- hyperventilator 13y ago
  Only unhappy men volunteer for war.
Nursie 13y ago
V is a cartoon, not really a serious discussion or useful guide to much. IMHO.

MisterWebz 13y ago

We need to concentrate our efforts. We can't just go out into the streets and complain about a myriad of issues. An organization like EFF is too broad. We need groups that each focus on one issue only.

7952 13y ago

Supporting Liberty [1] could be a good starting point. These are plain old human rights and civil liberty issues. [1] http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/index.php http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/index.php