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If you think this stuff is interesting from both a "what the hell is going on here" standpoint and a "no, really, what's it like in an investment bank?" standpo

by jmduke 13y ago

If you think this stuff is interesting from both a "what the hell is going on here" standpoint and a "no, really, what's it like in an investment bank?" standpoint, read Liar's Poker by Michael Lewis. It's a pretty interesting look at Wall Street in the late 80's, and it does a good job of avoiding an outright demonization of the industry while offering an honest appraisal. As an aside note, I'm always amused when I hear my tech friends lambast investment bankers' crazy work schedules and then go on to brag about pulling an all-nighter Thursday and then hit up a hackathon after work on Friday. (Just because you get free beer and t-shirts doesn't mean its not unhealthy.)

lmartel 13y ago
At least in tech it's a choice, though; I know lots of techies who work 40 hours a week (and, you're right, lots who don't), but I don't know a single banker who doesn't pull this sort of crap. And I know a lot of bankers.
- s3r3nity 13y ago
  eh -- anecdotal evidence != real data though
  - lmartel 13y ago
    You're completely right, but while I'm not going to look these numbers up I'm very confident that the average investment banker works longer hours than the average software engineer; or even, yes, the average startup founder. I can promise you Google interns don't die from overwork.
    - acchow 13y ago
      > I can promise you Google interns don't die from overwork. Hah. Overeating and binge drinking, probably.
    - s3r3nity 13y ago
      Yes and there were many people very confident that the world would end last year. The amount of confidence you have doesn't prove anything, especially if you have no basis for that confidence outside of a few anecdotes. Hmmm I love getting down-votes when I don't agree with the circle jerk.
- refurb 13y ago
  Random anecdote: A good friend of mine is working as an investment banker and he often puts in a 40-50hr work week. Of course, there are the 80+ hr weeks, but he's got a sweet gig.
- gadders 13y ago
  We need to differentiate between banking and banking IT, though. You rarely (apart from project crunches) get those hours in IT.
dev1n 13y ago
The difference here is that an all-nighter Thursday and then hackathon Friday will not be happening every week, or result in a 100 hour work week. These kids are literally doing 90+ hours every week for three months. A hackathon once in a while won't be near as detrimental as the hours this kid was working.
mcphilip 13y ago
I second the Liar's Poker recommendation. Besides being insightful, there are some great anecdotes. My favorite was the one where traders would ask interviewees to open a window, which had been previously nailed shut. One interviewee was so exasperated that he tossed a chair through the 43rd floor window.
- hobs 13y ago
  Haha, that happened to me once, just broke the frame. I imagine they have more heavy duty windows in skyscrapers though.
- gadders 13y ago
  I once got told of a trader at a large bank that was called "Keep the fucker". He had been late to work that morning and had parked in a board member's parking space. A security guard was sent to ask the trader to move his car. The trader was mid-deal and angrily waved the security guard away. Seeing this, the trader's colleagues asked the security guard to keep asking him in order to wind him up further. In the end the trader snapped, threw his car keys at the security guard and said "It's a 3 year old BMW, and I'm doing a billion dollar deal. Just keep the fucker."
jamiequint 13y ago
Another good one that I read recently was 'The Buy Side' by Turney Duff. http://www.amazon.com/The-Buy-Side-Traders-Spectacular/dp/077043715X http://www.amazon.com/The-Buy-Side-Traders-Spectacular/dp/07...
lectrick 13y ago
The difference between tech people and banking people are that tech people are trying to build an actual new idea and only secondarily are interested in making money (which often happens as a pleasant side effect).

by jmduke 13y ago

lmartel 13y ago

At least in tech it's a choice, though; I know lots of techies who work 40 hours a week (and, you're right, lots who don't), but I don't know a single banker who doesn't pull this sort of crap. And I know a lot of bankers.

s3r3nity 13y ago
eh -- anecdotal evidence != real data though
- lmartel 13y ago
  You're completely right, but while I'm not going to look these numbers up I'm very confident that the average investment banker works longer hours than the average software engineer; or even, yes, the average startup founder. I can promise you Google interns don't die from overwork.
  - acchow 13y ago
    > I can promise you Google interns don't die from overwork. Hah. Overeating and binge drinking, probably.
  - s3r3nity 13y ago
    Yes and there were many people very confident that the world would end last year. The amount of confidence you have doesn't prove anything, especially if you have no basis for that confidence outside of a few anecdotes. Hmmm I love getting down-votes when I don't agree with the circle jerk.
refurb 13y ago
Random anecdote: A good friend of mine is working as an investment banker and he often puts in a 40-50hr work week. Of course, there are the 80+ hr weeks, but he's got a sweet gig.
gadders 13y ago
We need to differentiate between banking and banking IT, though. You rarely (apart from project crunches) get those hours in IT.

dev1n 13y ago

The difference here is that an all-nighter Thursday and then hackathon Friday will not be happening every week, or result in a 100 hour work week. These kids are literally doing 90+ hours every week for three months. A hackathon once in a while won't be near as detrimental as the hours this kid was working.

mcphilip 13y ago

I second the Liar's Poker recommendation. Besides being insightful, there are some great anecdotes. My favorite was the one where traders would ask interviewees to open a window, which had been previously nailed shut. One interviewee was so exasperated that he tossed a chair through the 43rd floor window.

hobs 13y ago
Haha, that happened to me once, just broke the frame. I imagine they have more heavy duty windows in skyscrapers though.
gadders 13y ago
I once got told of a trader at a large bank that was called "Keep the fucker". He had been late to work that morning and had parked in a board member's parking space. A security guard was sent to ask the trader to move his car. The trader was mid-deal and angrily waved the security guard away. Seeing this, the trader's colleagues asked the security guard to keep asking him in order to wind him up further. In the end the trader snapped, threw his car keys at the security guard and said "It's a 3 year old BMW, and I'm doing a billion dollar deal. Just keep the fucker."

jamiequint 13y ago

Another good one that I read recently was 'The Buy Side' by Turney Duff. http://www.amazon.com/The-Buy-Side-Traders-Spectacular/dp/077043715X http://www.amazon.com/The-Buy-Side-Traders-Spectacular/dp/07...

lectrick 13y ago

The difference between tech people and banking people are that tech people are trying to build an actual new idea and only secondarily are interested in making money (which often happens as a pleasant side effect).