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> In Japan, there’s a word for it. Karoshi refers to death by overwork, a legal term that allows surviving family to petition a judge for compensation for damag

> In Japan, there’s a word for it. Karoshi refers to death by overwork, a legal term that allows surviving family to petition a judge for compensation for damages [..] we have no such legal designation of protracted corporate suicide. Is suicide really the word that should be used here?

YokoZar 13y ago
Perhaps not, though if you intend to commit suicide, and the difference between a gun and overwork is massive compensation to your family, then there probably is some sort of motivation to die at the office.
- coryl 13y ago
  Can you even choose to die by overworking? I mean, you can overwork yourself and inadvertently die. But you would never know if you were going to die, or just wake up really tired and go home the next morning. Jumping off a bridge is one thing, jumping off your office building is another. But going into work and seeing if you can grind yourself out, that takes motivation. You'd have to feel the need to perform your job well, which gives you the feeling of stress. It doesn't strike me that a suicidal person would knowingly choose their work as an avenue of death.
Havoc 13y ago
>Is suicide really the word that should be used here? I don't think there is a right word for it. Its not really murder because the employee more or less did it voluntarily. And its not really suicide because there was no intention to kill oneself. Death by overworking is about as good as it gets imo.
- dclowd9901 13y ago
  How is it not manslaughter or some form of negligent homicide? The company created a culture that celebrated unhealthy work practices. It's no different than if a company were paying its employees to smoke cigarettes.
  - paulhauggis 13y ago
    Should a site like HN get taken to court if someone dies from working 100 hour work weeks at their startup? Reading through many articles makes me believe that's what I need to do to succeed.
    - eru 13y ago
      Interesting argument. Only, I doubt the premise. Productivity will fall at some point. And in your startup you only care about productivity, not about impressing people with your actual hours. (You might want to impress people with tales of your alleged hours..)
    - dclowd9901 13y ago
      It's one thing to internalize something you've read and apply it to your life. It's quite another to fear a) not getting a job or b) losing your job because the company allows ridiculous work practices to run rampant. They knew what was up, and the shame is on them.

YokoZar 13y ago

Perhaps not, though if you intend to commit suicide, and the difference between a gun and overwork is massive compensation to your family, then there probably is some sort of motivation to die at the office.

coryl 13y ago
Can you even choose to die by overworking? I mean, you can overwork yourself and inadvertently die. But you would never know if you were going to die, or just wake up really tired and go home the next morning. Jumping off a bridge is one thing, jumping off your office building is another. But going into work and seeing if you can grind yourself out, that takes motivation. You'd have to feel the need to perform your job well, which gives you the feeling of stress. It doesn't strike me that a suicidal person would knowingly choose their work as an avenue of death.

Havoc 13y ago

>Is suicide really the word that should be used here? I don't think there is a right word for it. Its not really murder because the employee more or less did it voluntarily. And its not really suicide because there was no intention to kill oneself. Death by overworking is about as good as it gets imo.

dclowd9901 13y ago
How is it not manslaughter or some form of negligent homicide? The company created a culture that celebrated unhealthy work practices. It's no different than if a company were paying its employees to smoke cigarettes.
- paulhauggis 13y ago
  Should a site like HN get taken to court if someone dies from working 100 hour work weeks at their startup? Reading through many articles makes me believe that's what I need to do to succeed.
  - eru 13y ago
    Interesting argument. Only, I doubt the premise. Productivity will fall at some point. And in your startup you only care about productivity, not about impressing people with your actual hours. (You might want to impress people with tales of your alleged hours..)
  - dclowd9901 13y ago
    It's one thing to internalize something you've read and apply it to your life. It's quite another to fear a) not getting a job or b) losing your job because the company allows ridiculous work practices to run rampant. They knew what was up, and the shame is on them.