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I love Bitcoin and own some myself, but from the title I expected this article to be about how the "founders" of Bitcoin cash out from an early financing round

I love Bitcoin and own some myself, but from the title I expected this article to be about how the "founders" of Bitcoin cash out from an early financing round and spend the rest of their days rich, regardless of whether the concept survives.

snitko 13y ago
"Founders" don't need and probably won't cash out.
tlrobinson 13y ago
Hah, that's certainly one angle I missed.
lingben 13y ago
Given time everyone will come to realize that bitcoin is a very complex and elaborate ponzi scheme. One that will rewrite the books on scams.
- TDL 13y ago
  How is it a ponzi scheme?
  - volaski 13y ago
    Bitcoin ecosystem by design rewards the early adopters, since the more people use Bitcoin, the higher the value will go up. I also got the feeling that if Bitcoin does fail, it will go down in history as another Ponzi scheme. Which made me rethink about Ponzi scheme. Everyone in Bitcoin community genuinely believes that Bitcoin will succeed. I am sure it was like that with Ponzi scheme too. Theoretically Bitcoin can succeed, but there are many variables in the world. Maybe it was like that with Ponzi scheme too, you never know what will happen in the future. Lastly, I think it's unfair to label bitcoin as "just another ponzi scheme" as it is not intended for any bad will and theoretically could work (however with so many chances of failing)
    - tlrobinson 13y ago
      If Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme it's the most transparent Ponzi scheme in history.
    - drivebyacct2 13y ago
      "Investing in a successful company by design rewards the early adopters, since the more people buy that stock the higher the value will go up." Other than that, the only thing you mentioned is that "people want it to succeed". There are far more important pieces that are needed for something to be a Ponzi scheme and you haven't described how Bitcoin suffers from those attributes.
    - lectrick 13y ago
      So basically, every currency ever invented was a Ponzi scheme? When the government of a country prints money for itself, is it engaging in Ponzi? Gold mining (which is quite analogous to Bitcoin mining) is also a ponzi scheme, then?
      - volaski 13y ago
        I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. I've met many entrepreneurs and people who are working on Bitcoin related businesses and that was the impression I had, which made me rethink this whole "Everyone who was tricked into Ponzi scheme was a gullible idiot" idea that the society has--when something is uncertain and looks like a great opportunity, the ones who jump in are the people who believe in their intellect. The real dumb ones don't do that. Secondly, you and I both know government issued currency and Bitcoins are very different things. Government issued currency is centralized and is driven by very different factors than a completely decentralized currency such as Bitcoin. Lastly, gold mining has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
        gnaritas 13y ago
        > I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. You're using the term incorrectly, a Ponzi scheme isn't what you seem to think it is.
  - simonebrunozzi 13y ago
    Same question here.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    It's not. Rewarding early adopters is not enough to consider something a Ponzi scheme but it's enough to make people who don't know what a Ponzi scheme is to call it one.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  My favorite part is when this is repeated over and over without any explanation or elaboration.
- volaski 13y ago
  I also think Bitcoin is somewhat like a Ponzi scheme, in ways I described below, but is it a scam? No. The definition of scam is: "A dishonest scheme". There is nothing dishonest about Bitcoin. Sure there are so many ways it could fail, but it is definitely not a dishonest scheme.
- lectrick 13y ago
  [Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme.](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Is_Bitcoin_a_Ponzi_scheme.3F https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Is_Bitcoin_a_Ponzi_scheme.3F) If Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, then startup investment (which requires you to be an "accredited investor" aka have a million dollars just lying around... literally, that's what it takes to achieve "accredited investor" status) is also a Ponzi scheme.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  No they won't, because bitcoin isn't a Ponzi scheme or a scam. If you think bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, then I suggest you don't know what a Ponzi scheme actually is and you're using the term inappropriately.

snitko 13y ago

"Founders" don't need and probably won't cash out.

tlrobinson 13y ago

Hah, that's certainly one angle I missed.

lingben 13y ago

Given time everyone will come to realize that bitcoin is a very complex and elaborate ponzi scheme. One that will rewrite the books on scams.

TDL 13y ago
How is it a ponzi scheme?
- volaski 13y ago
  Bitcoin ecosystem by design rewards the early adopters, since the more people use Bitcoin, the higher the value will go up. I also got the feeling that if Bitcoin does fail, it will go down in history as another Ponzi scheme. Which made me rethink about Ponzi scheme. Everyone in Bitcoin community genuinely believes that Bitcoin will succeed. I am sure it was like that with Ponzi scheme too. Theoretically Bitcoin can succeed, but there are many variables in the world. Maybe it was like that with Ponzi scheme too, you never know what will happen in the future. Lastly, I think it's unfair to label bitcoin as "just another ponzi scheme" as it is not intended for any bad will and theoretically could work (however with so many chances of failing)
  - tlrobinson 13y ago
    If Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme it's the most transparent Ponzi scheme in history.
  - drivebyacct2 13y ago
    "Investing in a successful company by design rewards the early adopters, since the more people buy that stock the higher the value will go up." Other than that, the only thing you mentioned is that "people want it to succeed". There are far more important pieces that are needed for something to be a Ponzi scheme and you haven't described how Bitcoin suffers from those attributes.
  - lectrick 13y ago
    So basically, every currency ever invented was a Ponzi scheme? When the government of a country prints money for itself, is it engaging in Ponzi? Gold mining (which is quite analogous to Bitcoin mining) is also a ponzi scheme, then?
    - volaski 13y ago
      I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. I've met many entrepreneurs and people who are working on Bitcoin related businesses and that was the impression I had, which made me rethink this whole "Everyone who was tricked into Ponzi scheme was a gullible idiot" idea that the society has--when something is uncertain and looks like a great opportunity, the ones who jump in are the people who believe in their intellect. The real dumb ones don't do that. Secondly, you and I both know government issued currency and Bitcoins are very different things. Government issued currency is centralized and is driven by very different factors than a completely decentralized currency such as Bitcoin. Lastly, gold mining has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
      - gnaritas 13y ago
        > I am using the term "Ponzi scheme" with no judgment attached. You're using the term incorrectly, a Ponzi scheme isn't what you seem to think it is.
- simonebrunozzi 13y ago
  Same question here.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  It's not. Rewarding early adopters is not enough to consider something a Ponzi scheme but it's enough to make people who don't know what a Ponzi scheme is to call it one.
drivebyacct2 13y ago
My favorite part is when this is repeated over and over without any explanation or elaboration.
volaski 13y ago
I also think Bitcoin is somewhat like a Ponzi scheme, in ways I described below, but is it a scam? No. The definition of scam is: "A dishonest scheme". There is nothing dishonest about Bitcoin. Sure there are so many ways it could fail, but it is definitely not a dishonest scheme.
lectrick 13y ago
[Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme.](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Is_Bitcoin_a_Ponzi_scheme.3F https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Is_Bitcoin_a_Ponzi_scheme.3F) If Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, then startup investment (which requires you to be an "accredited investor" aka have a million dollars just lying around... literally, that's what it takes to achieve "accredited investor" status) is also a Ponzi scheme.
gnaritas 13y ago
No they won't, because bitcoin isn't a Ponzi scheme or a scam. If you think bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme, then I suggest you don't know what a Ponzi scheme actually is and you're using the term inappropriately.