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Awesome! I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I don't have much to add to the discussion other than to express my cautious joy that this is coming

by pvnick 13y ago

Awesome! I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I don't have much to add to the discussion other than to express my cautious joy that this is coming to light (I'm nervous at the extent to which the opinion will be redacted). Btw, is anybody else recently becoming optimistic that we could actually see some real reform? I see an administration and agency caught off-guard, completely in the dark as to the full extent of the coming revelations, and a bureaucracy comfortable operating in secret exposed into the light. I see the tide truly shifting, both in public opinion as well as in congress. I think some very powerful people are now very rightfully scared.

revscat 13y ago
| Btw, is anybody else recently becoming optimistic that we could actually see some real reform? Not really, no. The factions which benefit from this have not been hurt much, if at all, by their exposure. Nor has there been any call for a change in policy from those in a position to do so. There has been increased protestations from the political edges, but the core remains solidly in favor of privacy invasions and absolute government power No Congressional hearings, few editorial calls for change, and a President who continually lies about it and has expressed no outrage whatsoever. The oligarchy remains as powerful as ever. If anything, more so, because now that the people are aware if it they will begin to adjust to this new reality.
bratsche 13y ago
I find myself usually disappointed by the vast majority of what Congress and the White House say and do, so I'm still finding it difficult to be optimistic. I was, however, pleasantly surprised by how close the vote to defund the NSA's operations came. I think that may have been the point where this issue because more serious.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  As somebody on HN pointed out before, so long as they know something will pass or fail regardless, whips will give more leeway to party members so they can vote however makes them look good. If there were real danger of a vote going the wrong way, they would tighten up their ship. A close vote seems good, but in reality it isn't necessarily as close as it looked.
  - bratsche 13y ago
    That's probably true. Thank you, sir, for raining on my already very small parade. :)
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    While this is true, it presumes an accurate whip count and we've seen recent examples of the republicans getting it wrong and failing to pass their own bills when they thought it was a lock. They don't always know if something will pass or fail, but they usually do.
popee 13y ago
So naive. Wish you were right, tho
discostrings 13y ago
My optimism for real, important change is still small, but it's certainly increasing. While those in control haven't changed their position, the fact that this government malfeasance has been grabbing headlines for a few months has a huge effect. The administration's been caught inaccurately describing the surveillance regime and in some cases outright lying. Governments have already been forced to reveal far more than they wished to. Most people who are barely paying attention are convinced that the NSA is recording almost everything (and while many still blissfully believe they have "nothing to hide", the fact surveillance is now a fact rather than "conspiracy theory" should chip away at that more quickly). Outrage is especially large for those in the technical community. Even governments' thuggish tactics, like the grounding of Evo Morales's plane and the nine-hour "terror" questioning of David Miranda, are generating headlines and outrage. It's certainly going to be a slow process, but this has already built enough momentum that something is going to have to change. Whether that change is purely symbolic or real and effectual has yet to be seen, but we're off to a better start than I ever could have imagined last winter.

by pvnick 13y ago

revscat 13y ago

| Btw, is anybody else recently becoming optimistic that we could actually see some real reform? Not really, no. The factions which benefit from this have not been hurt much, if at all, by their exposure. Nor has there been any call for a change in policy from those in a position to do so. There has been increased protestations from the political edges, but the core remains solidly in favor of privacy invasions and absolute government power No Congressional hearings, few editorial calls for change, and a President who continually lies about it and has expressed no outrage whatsoever. The oligarchy remains as powerful as ever. If anything, more so, because now that the people are aware if it they will begin to adjust to this new reality.

bratsche 13y ago

I find myself usually disappointed by the vast majority of what Congress and the White House say and do, so I'm still finding it difficult to be optimistic. I was, however, pleasantly surprised by how close the vote to defund the NSA's operations came. I think that may have been the point where this issue because more serious.

jlgreco 13y ago
As somebody on HN pointed out before, so long as they know something will pass or fail regardless, whips will give more leeway to party members so they can vote however makes them look good. If there were real danger of a vote going the wrong way, they would tighten up their ship. A close vote seems good, but in reality it isn't necessarily as close as it looked.
- bratsche 13y ago
  That's probably true. Thank you, sir, for raining on my already very small parade. :)
- gnaritas 13y ago
  While this is true, it presumes an accurate whip count and we've seen recent examples of the republicans getting it wrong and failing to pass their own bills when they thought it was a lock. They don't always know if something will pass or fail, but they usually do.

popee 13y ago

So naive. Wish you were right, tho

discostrings 13y ago

My optimism for real, important change is still small, but it's certainly increasing. While those in control haven't changed their position, the fact that this government malfeasance has been grabbing headlines for a few months has a huge effect. The administration's been caught inaccurately describing the surveillance regime and in some cases outright lying. Governments have already been forced to reveal far more than they wished to. Most people who are barely paying attention are convinced that the NSA is recording almost everything (and while many still blissfully believe they have "nothing to hide", the fact surveillance is now a fact rather than "conspiracy theory" should chip away at that more quickly). Outrage is especially large for those in the technical community. Even governments' thuggish tactics, like the grounding of Evo Morales's plane and the nine-hour "terror" questioning of David Miranda, are generating headlines and outrage. It's certainly going to be a slow process, but this has already built enough momentum that something is going to have to change. Whether that change is purely symbolic or real and effectual has yet to be seen, but we're off to a better start than I ever could have imagined last winter.