3 ms·

Your "foreign activists... helping us" deserves to be qualified. Helping "us" do what? Meddle in other state's domestic politics? Set up arms deals? Intellectua

Your "foreign activists... helping us" deserves to be qualified. Helping "us" do what? Meddle in other state's domestic politics? Set up arms deals? Intellectual property treaties? Overthrow democratically elected governments? The "State Department human-rights effort" is not exactly world-renown for its ethics. Quite the opposite.

at-fates-hands 13y ago
>>>The "State Department human-rights effort" is not exactly world-renown for its ethics. Quite the opposite. I guess helping people in oppressive regimes doesn't count to you then?? I guess this $28 million was wasted then huh? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-20/u-s-funds-help-democracy-activists-evade-internet-crackdowns.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-20/u-s-funds-help-demo... "The U.S. State Department is set to announce $28 million in grants to help Internet activists, particularly in countries where the governments restrict e-mail and social networks such as those offered by Facebook Inc., Twitter Inc. and Google Inc. (GOOG)" "The program, which has drawn Republican criticism and budget cuts, has produced software that is spreading widely in Iran and Syria, helping pro-democracy activists avoid detection, said Dan Baer, deputy assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor."
- cinquemb 13y ago
  I wonder how many billions go to helping subvert other sovereignties? Can we have some cherry picked examples for that?
  - aspensmonster 13y ago
    Well, you can start with Iran. The reason it's such a mess today is because of our own meddling in 1953. Well, meddling isn't really the right word. More like a CIA-backed coup to overthrow Mossadegh and install a brutal dictator, all because BP didn't like Mossadegh's decision to push legislation nationalizing the oil fields. There's also Indonesia. We weren't exactly doing the communists any favors there either. We didn't mind that hundreds of thousands of people were being slaughtered then. We tacitly accepted it at best, because we didn't want another domino to fall in the wrong direction.
- tripzilch 13y ago
  Right, because helping "Internet activists" to access Google, FB and Twitter totally had nothing to do with securing the NSA's power to spy on those countries.
alex_stoddard 13y ago
I can provide one example from direct personal experience. A citizen of a country with a repressive regime was revealed by release of the diplomatic cables to have provided information to the US State Department on the persecution of church members in their country. They have subsequently had to flee the country, being separated for years from their spouse and children who have remained trapped at home.
- beedogs 13y ago
  I can make random things up, too.
  - alex_stoddard 13y ago
    Obviously I am being deliberately minimal in my description - which I have to be given that I am indeed telling the truth. Do you really find it more credible that I am lying than that the massive release of diplomatic cables has had at least one severely negative and unintended consequence? To provide a bit more context - it is common for any Christian in some countries to be accused of being a US collaborator. Once your name appears in US diplomatic cable, regardless of the reason, it is very bad news.
cookiecaper 13y ago
> Your "foreign activists... helping us" deserves to be qualified. Helping "us" do what? Meddle in other state's domestic politics? Set up arms deals? Intellectual property treaties? Overthrow democratically elected governments? Are any of those things necessarily problematic if the United States decides it is in its interest to engage in them? Be aware that what you think of when you say "meddling in domestic politics" may be interpreted differently by others.

at-fates-hands 13y ago

>>>The "State Department human-rights effort" is not exactly world-renown for its ethics. Quite the opposite. I guess helping people in oppressive regimes doesn't count to you then?? I guess this $28 million was wasted then huh? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-20/u-s-funds-help-democracy-activists-evade-internet-crackdowns.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-20/u-s-funds-help-demo... "The U.S. State Department is set to announce $28 million in grants to help Internet activists, particularly in countries where the governments restrict e-mail and social networks such as those offered by Facebook Inc., Twitter Inc. and Google Inc. (GOOG)" "The program, which has drawn Republican criticism and budget cuts, has produced software that is spreading widely in Iran and Syria, helping pro-democracy activists avoid detection, said Dan Baer, deputy assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor."

cinquemb 13y ago
I wonder how many billions go to helping subvert other sovereignties? Can we have some cherry picked examples for that?
- aspensmonster 13y ago
  Well, you can start with Iran. The reason it's such a mess today is because of our own meddling in 1953. Well, meddling isn't really the right word. More like a CIA-backed coup to overthrow Mossadegh and install a brutal dictator, all because BP didn't like Mossadegh's decision to push legislation nationalizing the oil fields. There's also Indonesia. We weren't exactly doing the communists any favors there either. We didn't mind that hundreds of thousands of people were being slaughtered then. We tacitly accepted it at best, because we didn't want another domino to fall in the wrong direction.
tripzilch 13y ago
Right, because helping "Internet activists" to access Google, FB and Twitter totally had nothing to do with securing the NSA's power to spy on those countries.

alex_stoddard 13y ago

I can provide one example from direct personal experience. A citizen of a country with a repressive regime was revealed by release of the diplomatic cables to have provided information to the US State Department on the persecution of church members in their country. They have subsequently had to flee the country, being separated for years from their spouse and children who have remained trapped at home.

beedogs 13y ago
I can make random things up, too.
- alex_stoddard 13y ago
  Obviously I am being deliberately minimal in my description - which I have to be given that I am indeed telling the truth. Do you really find it more credible that I am lying than that the massive release of diplomatic cables has had at least one severely negative and unintended consequence? To provide a bit more context - it is common for any Christian in some countries to be accused of being a US collaborator. Once your name appears in US diplomatic cable, regardless of the reason, it is very bad news.

cookiecaper 13y ago

> Your "foreign activists... helping us" deserves to be qualified. Helping "us" do what? Meddle in other state's domestic politics? Set up arms deals? Intellectual property treaties? Overthrow democratically elected governments? Are any of those things necessarily problematic if the United States decides it is in its interest to engage in them? Be aware that what you think of when you say "meddling in domestic politics" may be interpreted differently by others.