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I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I don't have an axe to gr

I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I don't have an axe to grind in this argument, so I'm not even going to bother digging that deep, but I'm not entirely convinced. I'm not a meat eater for the sole purpose of getting B12 and dont' try to convince vegans to eat meat with such sad arguments, so I hardly care what the true concensious is (though I'd be convinced with some real sites by actual qualified dieticians or other health professionals -sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia). Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good.

beagle3 13y ago
> I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference? > sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia Programmers, ok. Wikipedia - why? and "dieticians and health professionals" - sorry, most of them have no idea what they are talking about - they are just parroting what they learned. You admit yourself it is a fallacy. What's the point then? > Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good. Your guess is very wrong. Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any). And my B12 levels are very good, although they weren't in the past.
- will_work4tears 13y ago
  "I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference?" That's not what I was referring to. I'm referring to the (implied) claim that the B12 synthisized in our gut by bacteria is available to us. Wikipedia doesn't support that claim, and Wikipedia is editable by anybody, so while it's mostly trustworthy, if a heavy portion of the editors have a bias, it's going to show in an article that is heavyily political/quasi-relisious like veganism. Or vice versa if Wikipedia editors are heavily carnivorous (e.g Atkins) and hate vegans or something like that. "Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any)." Well, I don't know you, and can only assume you aren't lying or bending the truth, so I'll say that it is possible you are an outlier. In a cursory search yesterday (a couple hours only) I found references on both sides of the fence claiming that we can use B12 synthisized in our gut, and about the same number of sources saying we couldn't. Who to believe in such a hot, political topic. A guy with an axe to grind (vegan trying to defend/promote his lifestyle) or the fact that there seems to be no concensious in the sciencific community?
  - beagle3 13y ago
    > In a cursory search yesterday (a couple hours only) I found references on both sides of the fence claiming that we can use B12 synthisized in our gut, and about the same number of sources saying we couldn't. If you can actually link to them, I would be grateful. I can only find yahoo-answers style discussions that claim people cannot. > A guy with an axe to grind (vegan trying to defend/promote his lifestyle) or the fact that there seems to be no concensious in the sciencific community? You are making an awful lot of assumptions about me. I'm not a vegan (I was for a few short years; I've been vegetarian for 35 though). And I more often in these discussions advocate against veganism and vegetarianism because even though they can be very healthy, most people do them wrong - and if you can't stand your ground with science in these discussions, you shouldn't be vegan. And about consensus in the scientific community - I believe I have science backing me here, but let's put it aside - I gave two other examples in which the (so-called) scientific consensus is provably wrong (and others mentioned egg consumption). Personally, I'm not ignoring scientific consensus on everything and try to look at the details. Follow the common/average belief, and you get common/average results. If you like mediocrity, all power to you.

beagle3 13y ago

> I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference? > sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia Programmers, ok. Wikipedia - why? and "dieticians and health professionals" - sorry, most of them have no idea what they are talking about - they are just parroting what they learned. You admit yourself it is a fallacy. What's the point then? > Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good. Your guess is very wrong. Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any). And my B12 levels are very good, although they weren't in the past.

will_work4tears 13y ago
"I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference?" That's not what I was referring to. I'm referring to the (implied) claim that the B12 synthisized in our gut by bacteria is available to us. Wikipedia doesn't support that claim, and Wikipedia is editable by anybody, so while it's mostly trustworthy, if a heavy portion of the editors have a bias, it's going to show in an article that is heavyily political/quasi-relisious like veganism. Or vice versa if Wikipedia editors are heavily carnivorous (e.g Atkins) and hate vegans or something like that. "Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any)." Well, I don't know you, and can only assume you aren't lying or bending the truth, so I'll say that it is possible you are an outlier. In a cursory search yesterday (a couple hours only) I found references on both sides of the fence claiming that we can use B12 synthisized in our gut, and about the same number of sources saying we couldn't. Who to believe in such a hot, political topic. A guy with an axe to grind (vegan trying to defend/promote his lifestyle) or the fact that there seems to be no concensious in the sciencific community?
- beagle3 13y ago
  > In a cursory search yesterday (a couple hours only) I found references on both sides of the fence claiming that we can use B12 synthisized in our gut, and about the same number of sources saying we couldn't. If you can actually link to them, I would be grateful. I can only find yahoo-answers style discussions that claim people cannot. > A guy with an axe to grind (vegan trying to defend/promote his lifestyle) or the fact that there seems to be no concensious in the sciencific community? You are making an awful lot of assumptions about me. I'm not a vegan (I was for a few short years; I've been vegetarian for 35 though). And I more often in these discussions advocate against veganism and vegetarianism because even though they can be very healthy, most people do them wrong - and if you can't stand your ground with science in these discussions, you shouldn't be vegan. And about consensus in the scientific community - I believe I have science backing me here, but let's put it aside - I gave two other examples in which the (so-called) scientific consensus is provably wrong (and others mentioned egg consumption). Personally, I'm not ignoring scientific consensus on everything and try to look at the details. Follow the common/average belief, and you get common/average results. If you like mediocrity, all power to you.