4 ms·

"That you can only get B-12 from meat" Well, maybe "meat sources (dairy products under the umbrella) are the only significant source of B-12 without supplement

"That you can only get B-12 from meat" Well, maybe "meat sources (dairy products under the umbrella) are the only significant source of B-12 without supplementation" is more accurate. Cereals are "fortified" so I count that as supplementation. Sure, many yeasts contains B-12 too, some quite a bit. I'd even agree that it is significant, but it doesn't occur in foods people normally eat (maybe a guess here, but if that were true, vegans wouldn't need to supplement with yeast, etc), so it's taken as a supplemnt.

beagle3 13y ago
And now for the science: neither people nor animals make their own B12. Instead, we employ good bacteria in our gut to do that (and so do cows). After the discovery of antibiotics, many people in the western world became B12 deficient - especially vegetarians. However cows and other animals are just as incapable of making it - and in the last 30 years or so, just as deficient as humans, as they've also been getting lots of antibiotics. So we give them supplements. Thus they have enough B12, and meat eaters do too. According to some estimates, 80% of the world's B12 production goes to animals these days. So, likely, your B12 coming from meat is still from supplement, albeit one given to your hamburger while it was still alive. I have no dietary sources of B12, and yet have good levels, way above population average. You might call me a liar, more then one MD did. But they usually apologize if they actually research this (Wikipedia B12 has enough info)
- will_work4tears 13y ago
  I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I don't have an axe to grind in this argument, so I'm not even going to bother digging that deep, but I'm not entirely convinced. I'm not a meat eater for the sole purpose of getting B12 and dont' try to convince vegans to eat meat with such sad arguments, so I hardly care what the true concensious is (though I'd be convinced with some real sites by actual qualified dieticians or other health professionals -sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia). Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good.
  - beagle3 13y ago
    > I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference? > sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia Programmers, ok. Wikipedia - why? and "dieticians and health professionals" - sorry, most of them have no idea what they are talking about - they are just parroting what they learned. You admit yourself it is a fallacy. What's the point then? > Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good. Your guess is very wrong. Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any). And my B12 levels are very good, although they weren't in the past.
    - will_work4tears 13y ago
      "I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference?" That's not what I was referring to. I'm referring to the (implied) claim that the B12 synthisized in our gut by bacteria is available to us. Wikipedia doesn't support that claim, and Wikipedia is editable by anybody, so while it's mostly trustworthy, if a heavy portion of the editors have a bias, it's going to show in an article that is heavyily political/quasi-relisious like veganism. Or vice versa if Wikipedia editors are heavily carnivorous (e.g Atkins) and hate vegans or something like that. "Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any)." Well, I don't know you, and can only assume you aren't lying or bending the truth, so I'll say that it is possible you are an outlier. In a cursory search yesterday (a couple hours only) I found references on both sides of the fence claiming that we can use B12 synthisized in our gut, and about the same number of sources saying we couldn't. Who to believe in such a hot, political topic. A guy with an axe to grind (vegan trying to defend/promote his lifestyle) or the fact that there seems to be no concensious in the sciencific community?
      - 13y ago
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

beagle3 13y ago

And now for the science: neither people nor animals make their own B12. Instead, we employ good bacteria in our gut to do that (and so do cows). After the discovery of antibiotics, many people in the western world became B12 deficient - especially vegetarians. However cows and other animals are just as incapable of making it - and in the last 30 years or so, just as deficient as humans, as they've also been getting lots of antibiotics. So we give them supplements. Thus they have enough B12, and meat eaters do too. According to some estimates, 80% of the world's B12 production goes to animals these days. So, likely, your B12 coming from meat is still from supplement, albeit one given to your hamburger while it was still alive. I have no dietary sources of B12, and yet have good levels, way above population average. You might call me a liar, more then one MD did. But they usually apologize if they actually research this (Wikipedia B12 has enough info)

will_work4tears 13y ago
I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I don't have an axe to grind in this argument, so I'm not even going to bother digging that deep, but I'm not entirely convinced. I'm not a meat eater for the sole purpose of getting B12 and dont' try to convince vegans to eat meat with such sad arguments, so I hardly care what the true concensious is (though I'd be convinced with some real sites by actual qualified dieticians or other health professionals -sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia). Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good.
- beagle3 13y ago
  > I think if anyone reasonable researches this they'll see that there is still some controversy on the issue (Studies show both sides). I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference? > sorry, It's a fallacy, but I don't like getting my "facts" from programmers and Wikipedia Programmers, ok. Wikipedia - why? and "dieticians and health professionals" - sorry, most of them have no idea what they are talking about - they are just parroting what they learned. You admit yourself it is a fallacy. What's the point then? > Anyway, my guess is you are in your early to mid twenties, and probably have only been a vegan for a handful of years, am I right? Give it 20, 30 years and lets see if your B12 levels are still good. Your guess is very wrong. Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any). And my B12 levels are very good, although they weren't in the past.
  - will_work4tears 13y ago
    "I've never heard of a study claiming B12 in animals in vivo is not synthesized by bacteria (or archaea). Care to give a reference?" That's not what I was referring to. I'm referring to the (implied) claim that the B12 synthisized in our gut by bacteria is available to us. Wikipedia doesn't support that claim, and Wikipedia is editable by anybody, so while it's mostly trustworthy, if a heavy portion of the editors have a bias, it's going to show in an article that is heavyily political/quasi-relisious like veganism. Or vice versa if Wikipedia editors are heavily carnivorous (e.g Atkins) and hate vegans or something like that. "Been vegetarian for over 35 years (only a few years of those vegan, but not having a B12 source in almost any)." Well, I don't know you, and can only assume you aren't lying or bending the truth, so I'll say that it is possible you are an outlier. In a cursory search yesterday (a couple hours only) I found references on both sides of the fence claiming that we can use B12 synthisized in our gut, and about the same number of sources saying we couldn't. Who to believe in such a hot, political topic. A guy with an axe to grind (vegan trying to defend/promote his lifestyle) or the fact that there seems to be no concensious in the sciencific community?
    - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]