5 ms·

You may not see a problem, but over 10,000 backers (myself included) do. I'd be happy to go into more detail about why if you would like.

krrrh 13y ago
I'm curious. Specifically about what you think Soylent offers that the wide variety of MRPs rhat have been on the market dor decades don't. Is it the concept of literally replacing all of your meals? To me it seems that there are dozens of existing MRPs that beat Soylent on price, flavor, and quality. But I have rarely seen any manufacturer claim that you can replace every meal with their product, and when they do its been controversial, and only suggested for limited times while convalescing or cutting. What's the appeal?
- nbouscal 13y ago
  The main difference for me between Soylent and the other options on the market is the specific goals of the products. There are a variety of other options, but as you said, the majority aren't intended as replacements for your entire diet (those ones also tend to beat Soylent on flavor only by being chock full of sugar). There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. To be more concise, Soylent is specifically designed to be used as I intend to use it, and none of the other products are. That said, I don't intend to replace all of my meals. Eating is often more for social reasons than it is for nutritive ones, and in some cases I'll still be happy to eat conventional food for that reason. I expect to replace most of my meals, but I don't plan to swear off conventional food entirely. Maybe once or twice a week I'll have lunch or dinner with friends.
  - hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
    > There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. There's no difference. The point is that those are expensive because getting a concoction of nutrients that doesn't damage you in the long term is hard.
    - nbouscal 13y ago
      Of course it's hard, I don't think anyone has claimed it's easy. For some reason this subject hits a nerve with some people really, really hard (Aside: it's actually really fascinating to think about why that is. Health concerns are definitely not enough to explain the level of vitriol.). Those people then tend to use some really disingenuous arguments against Soylent. For example, I can't say how many times I've seen people dismissing Rob as "having spent a couple weekends reading Wikipedia". Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer, yet somehow people are actually describing him and Soylent as "anti-intellectual". Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. It's especially fascinating to see this backlash in a community like HN, where most of us work in a field that has done a lot to cast off the traditional model. A lot of our role models didn't go through those traditional degree programs either, yet something about nutrition makes people completely freak out. Yes, I get it, nutrition is complex and we know relatively little about it. Yes, I get it, if you screw up on nutrition people's lives are at risk. And yet, as Rob often points out, nobody was up in arms yelling at him when he was eating a terrible diet of pizza rolls and fast food. I find it really hard to believe that Soylent could be worse for you than that. Sorry for going off on a bit of a rant, obviously I've thought about this all for a while.
      - ars_technician 13y ago
        It hits a nerve because it's being advertised as a candidate for full-time meal replacement. Pizza rolls and fast food are not, so the comparison between the two is a false equivalency. >Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. That's another false equivalency. Nutritional programs do not produce scientists, but not being in a nutritional program doesn't suddenly make you a scientist. >Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer Engineers do not practice the type of science required to develop new food/drugs. Where are the long term studies across various demographics with double-blind tests? The lack of those is what makes this "anti-intellectual".
  - silencio 13y ago
    > Soylent's different target market What exactly is Soylent's target market? 20-30 something men? As much as I love the idea of a meal replacement, the idea of a one-formula-for-all Soylent marketed as a near-entire meal replacement is kind of disturbing. I really hope the Soylent team figure things out soon by coming out with multiple formulas, or at least make it really clear who they're targeting first. You don't have to even reach for a patient with special dietary requirements to realize the problem. For years I had to ensure I either took an iron supplement or got enough iron through my diet due to iron deficiency anemia from menstruation - a problem discovered only after I passed out in the middle of the street one morning. Given that I love iron-rich foods and that I chalked up the rest of the symptoms to stress, imagine my surprise. My postmenopausal mother consumes an absurd amount of calcium daily because that's one thing the female body needs after menopause. My father is getting old and his eye doctor tells him to consume eye vitamins now to reduce his risk of AMD (age related macular degeneration - one of the largest causes of vision loss). These three examples from my immediate family. Half the world's population will menstruate at some point, or will stop doing so. Even more will eventually get old. You can see where I'm trying to go with this. I would probably be a lot more relaxed about this and put Soylent on the same level as my Carnation Breakfast Essentials if it's only supposed to replace a small part of what you eat, but while people are wholeheartedly advertising this as a complete meal replacement and while all the (so far public) test subjects seem to be 20-30 something men... I'll be nervous about it and I'll hold it to a higher standard. (And no, none of my disapproval of Soylent means I approve of crappy diets of fast food and sugary foods. Maybe some people will end up eating healthier with Soylent compared to their old diet, which would be great, but just don't market it like it's for everyone to replace nearly all their meals with IMO.)
    - nbouscal 13y ago
      They are already releasing male and female versions, with the female version having more iron (among other differences). They're also planning on setting it up so that you can customize it further based on activity level, etc, but that is still a few months out.
- pbreit 13y ago
  Can you name 2 or 3 (1?) that are marketed for 15-21 meals per week? I don't think anyone is expecting to replace all 21 meals per week with Soylent (including the creator, who specifically said that his regular meals have become more delightful). For me, the aspects that resonate are: 1) weight management, 2) ease and time savings, 3) cost savings & 4) increased alertness & energy. If you have any suggestions on what I should consider until Soylent is ready, I'm all ears.
  - jlees 13y ago
    Depends if you want to go into ketosis or not. There are ketogenic full meal replacement plans out there. I lived on nothing else for 3 months a couple of years ago, in the UK. 28 drinks per week for 4 weeks, then 21 + 7 protein bars. You could presumably avoid ketosis and weight loss by adding in caloric drinks, though obviously not intended. Afraid I don't know of any in the US, though (assuming location based on time). Medifast seems the closest but they advocate meals alongside the replacement.
bsbechtel 13y ago
I am too.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  This comment[1] that I made elsewhere in the thread probably works as a quick summary of my reasoning. Again, happy to answer any questions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003

krrrh 13y ago

I'm curious. Specifically about what you think Soylent offers that the wide variety of MRPs rhat have been on the market dor decades don't. Is it the concept of literally replacing all of your meals? To me it seems that there are dozens of existing MRPs that beat Soylent on price, flavor, and quality. But I have rarely seen any manufacturer claim that you can replace every meal with their product, and when they do its been controversial, and only suggested for limited times while convalescing or cutting. What's the appeal?

nbouscal 13y ago
The main difference for me between Soylent and the other options on the market is the specific goals of the products. There are a variety of other options, but as you said, the majority aren't intended as replacements for your entire diet (those ones also tend to beat Soylent on flavor only by being chock full of sugar). There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. To be more concise, Soylent is specifically designed to be used as I intend to use it, and none of the other products are. That said, I don't intend to replace all of my meals. Eating is often more for social reasons than it is for nutritive ones, and in some cases I'll still be happy to eat conventional food for that reason. I expect to replace most of my meals, but I don't plan to swear off conventional food entirely. Maybe once or twice a week I'll have lunch or dinner with friends.
- hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  > There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. There's no difference. The point is that those are expensive because getting a concoction of nutrients that doesn't damage you in the long term is hard.
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    Of course it's hard, I don't think anyone has claimed it's easy. For some reason this subject hits a nerve with some people really, really hard (Aside: it's actually really fascinating to think about why that is. Health concerns are definitely not enough to explain the level of vitriol.). Those people then tend to use some really disingenuous arguments against Soylent. For example, I can't say how many times I've seen people dismissing Rob as "having spent a couple weekends reading Wikipedia". Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer, yet somehow people are actually describing him and Soylent as "anti-intellectual". Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. It's especially fascinating to see this backlash in a community like HN, where most of us work in a field that has done a lot to cast off the traditional model. A lot of our role models didn't go through those traditional degree programs either, yet something about nutrition makes people completely freak out. Yes, I get it, nutrition is complex and we know relatively little about it. Yes, I get it, if you screw up on nutrition people's lives are at risk. And yet, as Rob often points out, nobody was up in arms yelling at him when he was eating a terrible diet of pizza rolls and fast food. I find it really hard to believe that Soylent could be worse for you than that. Sorry for going off on a bit of a rant, obviously I've thought about this all for a while.
    - ars_technician 13y ago
      It hits a nerve because it's being advertised as a candidate for full-time meal replacement. Pizza rolls and fast food are not, so the comparison between the two is a false equivalency. >Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. That's another false equivalency. Nutritional programs do not produce scientists, but not being in a nutritional program doesn't suddenly make you a scientist. >Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer Engineers do not practice the type of science required to develop new food/drugs. Where are the long term studies across various demographics with double-blind tests? The lack of those is what makes this "anti-intellectual".
- silencio 13y ago
  > Soylent's different target market What exactly is Soylent's target market? 20-30 something men? As much as I love the idea of a meal replacement, the idea of a one-formula-for-all Soylent marketed as a near-entire meal replacement is kind of disturbing. I really hope the Soylent team figure things out soon by coming out with multiple formulas, or at least make it really clear who they're targeting first. You don't have to even reach for a patient with special dietary requirements to realize the problem. For years I had to ensure I either took an iron supplement or got enough iron through my diet due to iron deficiency anemia from menstruation - a problem discovered only after I passed out in the middle of the street one morning. Given that I love iron-rich foods and that I chalked up the rest of the symptoms to stress, imagine my surprise. My postmenopausal mother consumes an absurd amount of calcium daily because that's one thing the female body needs after menopause. My father is getting old and his eye doctor tells him to consume eye vitamins now to reduce his risk of AMD (age related macular degeneration - one of the largest causes of vision loss). These three examples from my immediate family. Half the world's population will menstruate at some point, or will stop doing so. Even more will eventually get old. You can see where I'm trying to go with this. I would probably be a lot more relaxed about this and put Soylent on the same level as my Carnation Breakfast Essentials if it's only supposed to replace a small part of what you eat, but while people are wholeheartedly advertising this as a complete meal replacement and while all the (so far public) test subjects seem to be 20-30 something men... I'll be nervous about it and I'll hold it to a higher standard. (And no, none of my disapproval of Soylent means I approve of crappy diets of fast food and sugary foods. Maybe some people will end up eating healthier with Soylent compared to their old diet, which would be great, but just don't market it like it's for everyone to replace nearly all their meals with IMO.)
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    They are already releasing male and female versions, with the female version having more iron (among other differences). They're also planning on setting it up so that you can customize it further based on activity level, etc, but that is still a few months out.
pbreit 13y ago
Can you name 2 or 3 (1?) that are marketed for 15-21 meals per week? I don't think anyone is expecting to replace all 21 meals per week with Soylent (including the creator, who specifically said that his regular meals have become more delightful). For me, the aspects that resonate are: 1) weight management, 2) ease and time savings, 3) cost savings & 4) increased alertness & energy. If you have any suggestions on what I should consider until Soylent is ready, I'm all ears.
- jlees 13y ago
  Depends if you want to go into ketosis or not. There are ketogenic full meal replacement plans out there. I lived on nothing else for 3 months a couple of years ago, in the UK. 28 drinks per week for 4 weeks, then 21 + 7 protein bars. You could presumably avoid ketosis and weight loss by adding in caloric drinks, though obviously not intended. Afraid I don't know of any in the US, though (assuming location based on time). Medifast seems the closest but they advocate meals alongside the replacement.

bsbechtel 13y ago

I am too.

nbouscal 13y ago
This comment[1] that I made elsewhere in the thread probably works as a quick summary of my reasoning. Again, happy to answer any questions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003