8 ms·

>That’s not a good reason to not try to innovate. Innovation only really works if you're solving a problem. I don't really see much of a problem with our food/

>That’s not a good reason to not try to innovate. Innovation only really works if you're solving a problem. I don't really see much of a problem with our food/nutrition system as is. Yes, there are parts of the world where people are starving, so maybe there is an application for this there, but if the aim is to test this product out in the Bay Area, I don't really see it going anywhere. I could be wrong, but that's my 2 cents.

nbouscal 13y ago
You may not see a problem, but over 10,000 backers (myself included) do. I'd be happy to go into more detail about why if you would like.
- krrrh 13y ago
  I'm curious. Specifically about what you think Soylent offers that the wide variety of MRPs rhat have been on the market dor decades don't. Is it the concept of literally replacing all of your meals? To me it seems that there are dozens of existing MRPs that beat Soylent on price, flavor, and quality. But I have rarely seen any manufacturer claim that you can replace every meal with their product, and when they do its been controversial, and only suggested for limited times while convalescing or cutting. What's the appeal?
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    The main difference for me between Soylent and the other options on the market is the specific goals of the products. There are a variety of other options, but as you said, the majority aren't intended as replacements for your entire diet (those ones also tend to beat Soylent on flavor only by being chock full of sugar). There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. To be more concise, Soylent is specifically designed to be used as I intend to use it, and none of the other products are. That said, I don't intend to replace all of my meals. Eating is often more for social reasons than it is for nutritive ones, and in some cases I'll still be happy to eat conventional food for that reason. I expect to replace most of my meals, but I don't plan to swear off conventional food entirely. Maybe once or twice a week I'll have lunch or dinner with friends.
    - hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
      > There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. There's no difference. The point is that those are expensive because getting a concoction of nutrients that doesn't damage you in the long term is hard.
      - nbouscal 13y ago
        Of course it's hard, I don't think anyone has claimed it's easy. For some reason this subject hits a nerve with some people really, really hard (Aside: it's actually really fascinating to think about why that is. Health concerns are definitely not enough to explain the level of vitriol.). Those people then tend to use some really disingenuous arguments against Soylent. For example, I can't say how many times I've seen people dismissing Rob as "having spent a couple weekends reading Wikipedia". Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer, yet somehow people are actually describing him and Soylent as "anti-intellectual". Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. It's especially fascinating to see this backlash in a community like HN, where most of us work in a field that has done a lot to cast off the traditional model. A lot of our role models didn't go through those traditional degree programs either, yet something about nutrition makes people completely freak out. Yes, I get it, nutrition is complex and we know relatively little about it. Yes, I get it, if you screw up on nutrition people's lives are at risk. And yet, as Rob often points out, nobody was up in arms yelling at him when he was eating a terrible diet of pizza rolls and fast food. I find it really hard to believe that Soylent could be worse for you than that. Sorry for going off on a bit of a rant, obviously I've thought about this all for a while.
        ars_technician 13y ago
        It hits a nerve because it's being advertised as a candidate for full-time meal replacement. Pizza rolls and fast food are not, so the comparison between the two is a false equivalency. >Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. That's another false equivalency. Nutritional programs do not produce scientists, but not being in a nutritional program doesn't suddenly make you a scientist. >Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer Engineers do not practice the type of science required to develop new food/drugs. Where are the long term studies across various demographics with double-blind tests? The lack of those is what makes this "anti-intellectual".
  - pbreit 13y ago
    Can you name 2 or 3 (1?) that are marketed for 15-21 meals per week? I don't think anyone is expecting to replace all 21 meals per week with Soylent (including the creator, who specifically said that his regular meals have become more delightful). For me, the aspects that resonate are: 1) weight management, 2) ease and time savings, 3) cost savings & 4) increased alertness & energy. If you have any suggestions on what I should consider until Soylent is ready, I'm all ears.
    - jlees 13y ago
      Depends if you want to go into ketosis or not. There are ketogenic full meal replacement plans out there. I lived on nothing else for 3 months a couple of years ago, in the UK. 28 drinks per week for 4 weeks, then 21 + 7 protein bars. You could presumably avoid ketosis and weight loss by adding in caloric drinks, though obviously not intended. Afraid I don't know of any in the US, though (assuming location based on time). Medifast seems the closest but they advocate meals alongside the replacement.
- bsbechtel 13y ago
  I am too.
  - nbouscal 13y ago
    This comment[1] that I made elsewhere in the thread probably works as a quick summary of my reasoning. Again, happy to answer any questions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003
TillE 13y ago
Apparently the target market is lazy people who don't like food. And let's be honest, nearly everyone likes real food. Keto works great for weight loss, and moderation is usually sufficient for a healthy maintenance diet. Loaded with carbohydrates as it is, Soylent is particularly uninteresting for anyone trying to reduce body fat.
- mparlane 13y ago
  A lot of things were invented for "lazy" people so they could save time to do other more important things. Like my electric razor, I have my safety razor too, but it's so much faster to use my electric. A coworker has a beard so he can save 5 minutes in the morning, is it lazy to want time to do other things?
  - woofyman 13y ago
    Eating real food is one of life's great pleasures.
    - 6d0debc071 13y ago
      -shrug- Don't know what the distribution is, but that varies. Other than not dying, I just don't get what all the fuss is about.
    - ncallaway 13y ago
      I agree with this statement, and yet I think ideas like Soylent are great. Why? Because I don't eat quality home-cooked food three meals a day. Often, my breakfasts consist of a store bought English-muffin toasted and coated in peanut butter. I'm not eating that because I get to savor the amazing flavors. I'm eating it because it's: a) quick b) somewhat healthy and c) provides me with a reasonable amount of energy for my morning. Some meals I eat for the enjoyment of the food. Those are meals I wouldn't replace with Soylent. Some meals I eat for the utility that the food provides; I'd happily replace some of those with Soylent.
  - mortenjorck 13y ago
    This to me is the real draw of Soylent: Not subsisting on it for weeks at a time, but rather using it as a "DVR for eating." In this way, Soylent could actually improve one's enjoyment of food by allowing one to focus on eating well only when time allows. Imagine not having to eat most of the time, but always having two hours set aside every Wednesday night to cook a feast.
md224 13y ago
I'll just say this: I hate cooking, and ordering delivery every night, while easy, isn't ideal (cost, etc.). Eating delicious, real food every once in a while is a great treat, but why the hell do I have to put so much energy into this ritual of choosing/preparing/acquiring meals every single day of my life? Sometimes I just don't want to be hungry, and I don't really care how I get not-hungry. I'm withholding judgement on this Soylent thing because there seems to be quite a bit of controversy, but I can't say I agree that it isn't solving a problem.
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  1. There are existing MRPs. 2. There are companies that will prepare and deliver meals for you. Usually lower in sodium than dining out / take-away. 3. Soylent is surrounded with controversy because of the deliberate avoidance of expert input leading to trivial but potentially life-threatening errors: http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1jvsie/the_man_who_thinks_he_never_has_to_eat_again_is/cbj5jw9 http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1jvsie/the_man_w...
  - gaelian 13y ago
    I don't have a horse in this race one way or the other. I didn't back Soylent, I'm not for or against it, just an observer. But did you read that Herman guy's original comment[1]? He's borderline ranting from the outset. Amongst other ostensibly useful advice, he tells the Rob guy to include copper when he already did, the Rob guy gives a reply that seems to encourage further engagement but Herman does not respond. Herman then escalates and expands on his rant months later on reddit. Am I missing something that happened between Herman's orginal comment and his reddit rant? I'm not disregarding what Herman says, he seems knowledgeable. But if you act like a dick, it's less likely that most people will really warm to your advice. 1. http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424#comment-514 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424#comment-514
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      Yes, he's a dick and he missed copper. I'm going to assign the dickishness to passion and the missed copper to missing copper in the list. But his general point is still correct: a mix of foods trumps a formula, especially given population variations in requirement and uptake.
thret 13y ago
A small just-add-water packet that can keep you alive for two weeks is going to find a home in every survival/hiking/camping/boat pack. Also things like disaster recovery, refugee camps, anywhere that you need to get sufficient food to a lot of people in a hurry.
- munin 13y ago
  really curious, you don't think this exists already? also, doesn't it have to be blended?
pbreit 13y ago
"I don't really see much of a problem with our food/nutrition system as is." I'm not sure how you cannot see a problem. Obesity alone affects 36% of the US adult population! I am looking forward to the energy boost and increased alertness (and could stand to lose a few pounds). As well as saving 5 or 10 hours a week on food preparation.
kamaal 13y ago
>>Yes, there are parts of the world where people are starving There is nothing like a food shortage in the world. There is problem with food distribution, often because its expensive to send food from point A to B and no one is ready to pay for it. The solution is to find those people jobs so that they can buy food. It has more to do with economic policy.
- bsbechtel 13y ago
  I know this as well as anyone...worked in agriculture for a long time. I was just trying to be succinct, that's why I didn't specifically say food shortage. Jobs help, but there are some serious technological hurdles that hinder food storage in the developing world, making it unreasonably expensive. If this stuff can be made in bulk for cheap and has a long shelf life, that's where I'm thinking it could be useful. Disclaimer - I only skimmed the article, so some of these details on the cost and shelf life could be stated and I missed them.

nbouscal 13y ago

You may not see a problem, but over 10,000 backers (myself included) do. I'd be happy to go into more detail about why if you would like.

krrrh 13y ago
I'm curious. Specifically about what you think Soylent offers that the wide variety of MRPs rhat have been on the market dor decades don't. Is it the concept of literally replacing all of your meals? To me it seems that there are dozens of existing MRPs that beat Soylent on price, flavor, and quality. But I have rarely seen any manufacturer claim that you can replace every meal with their product, and when they do its been controversial, and only suggested for limited times while convalescing or cutting. What's the appeal?
- nbouscal 13y ago
  The main difference for me between Soylent and the other options on the market is the specific goals of the products. There are a variety of other options, but as you said, the majority aren't intended as replacements for your entire diet (those ones also tend to beat Soylent on flavor only by being chock full of sugar). There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. To be more concise, Soylent is specifically designed to be used as I intend to use it, and none of the other products are. That said, I don't intend to replace all of my meals. Eating is often more for social reasons than it is for nutritive ones, and in some cases I'll still be happy to eat conventional food for that reason. I expect to replace most of my meals, but I don't plan to swear off conventional food entirely. Maybe once or twice a week I'll have lunch or dinner with friends.
  - hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
    > There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fact that they're designed for patients who can't eat means that there is a lot of room for improvement given Soylent's different target market. There's no difference. The point is that those are expensive because getting a concoction of nutrients that doesn't damage you in the long term is hard.
    - nbouscal 13y ago
      Of course it's hard, I don't think anyone has claimed it's easy. For some reason this subject hits a nerve with some people really, really hard (Aside: it's actually really fascinating to think about why that is. Health concerns are definitely not enough to explain the level of vitriol.). Those people then tend to use some really disingenuous arguments against Soylent. For example, I can't say how many times I've seen people dismissing Rob as "having spent a couple weekends reading Wikipedia". Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer, yet somehow people are actually describing him and Soylent as "anti-intellectual". Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. It's especially fascinating to see this backlash in a community like HN, where most of us work in a field that has done a lot to cast off the traditional model. A lot of our role models didn't go through those traditional degree programs either, yet something about nutrition makes people completely freak out. Yes, I get it, nutrition is complex and we know relatively little about it. Yes, I get it, if you screw up on nutrition people's lives are at risk. And yet, as Rob often points out, nobody was up in arms yelling at him when he was eating a terrible diet of pizza rolls and fast food. I find it really hard to believe that Soylent could be worse for you than that. Sorry for going off on a bit of a rant, obviously I've thought about this all for a while.
      - ars_technician 13y ago
        It hits a nerve because it's being advertised as a candidate for full-time meal replacement. Pizza rolls and fast food are not, so the comparison between the two is a false equivalency. >Obviously he didn't go through a traditional degree program in nutrition, but I've seen what comes out of a lot of those traditional degree programs, and that's really not much of an argument against him. That's another false equivalency. Nutritional programs do not produce scientists, but not being in a nutritional program doesn't suddenly make you a scientist. >Well, no, he spent quite a significant amount of time reading textbooks and journals, getting a pretty reasonable grounding in the science. It's also not like it's his first time studying science, seeing as he is an engineer Engineers do not practice the type of science required to develop new food/drugs. Where are the long term studies across various demographics with double-blind tests? The lack of those is what makes this "anti-intellectual".
- pbreit 13y ago
  Can you name 2 or 3 (1?) that are marketed for 15-21 meals per week? I don't think anyone is expecting to replace all 21 meals per week with Soylent (including the creator, who specifically said that his regular meals have become more delightful). For me, the aspects that resonate are: 1) weight management, 2) ease and time savings, 3) cost savings & 4) increased alertness & energy. If you have any suggestions on what I should consider until Soylent is ready, I'm all ears.
  - jlees 13y ago
    Depends if you want to go into ketosis or not. There are ketogenic full meal replacement plans out there. I lived on nothing else for 3 months a couple of years ago, in the UK. 28 drinks per week for 4 weeks, then 21 + 7 protein bars. You could presumably avoid ketosis and weight loss by adding in caloric drinks, though obviously not intended. Afraid I don't know of any in the US, though (assuming location based on time). Medifast seems the closest but they advocate meals alongside the replacement.
bsbechtel 13y ago
I am too.
- nbouscal 13y ago
  This comment[1] that I made elsewhere in the thread probably works as a quick summary of my reasoning. Again, happy to answer any questions. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6248003

TillE 13y ago

Apparently the target market is lazy people who don't like food. And let's be honest, nearly everyone likes real food. Keto works great for weight loss, and moderation is usually sufficient for a healthy maintenance diet. Loaded with carbohydrates as it is, Soylent is particularly uninteresting for anyone trying to reduce body fat.

mparlane 13y ago
A lot of things were invented for "lazy" people so they could save time to do other more important things. Like my electric razor, I have my safety razor too, but it's so much faster to use my electric. A coworker has a beard so he can save 5 minutes in the morning, is it lazy to want time to do other things?
- woofyman 13y ago
  Eating real food is one of life's great pleasures.
  - 6d0debc071 13y ago
    -shrug- Don't know what the distribution is, but that varies. Other than not dying, I just don't get what all the fuss is about.
  - ncallaway 13y ago
    I agree with this statement, and yet I think ideas like Soylent are great. Why? Because I don't eat quality home-cooked food three meals a day. Often, my breakfasts consist of a store bought English-muffin toasted and coated in peanut butter. I'm not eating that because I get to savor the amazing flavors. I'm eating it because it's: a) quick b) somewhat healthy and c) provides me with a reasonable amount of energy for my morning. Some meals I eat for the enjoyment of the food. Those are meals I wouldn't replace with Soylent. Some meals I eat for the utility that the food provides; I'd happily replace some of those with Soylent.
- mortenjorck 13y ago
  This to me is the real draw of Soylent: Not subsisting on it for weeks at a time, but rather using it as a "DVR for eating." In this way, Soylent could actually improve one's enjoyment of food by allowing one to focus on eating well only when time allows. Imagine not having to eat most of the time, but always having two hours set aside every Wednesday night to cook a feast.

md224 13y ago

I'll just say this: I hate cooking, and ordering delivery every night, while easy, isn't ideal (cost, etc.). Eating delicious, real food every once in a while is a great treat, but why the hell do I have to put so much energy into this ritual of choosing/preparing/acquiring meals every single day of my life? Sometimes I just don't want to be hungry, and I don't really care how I get not-hungry. I'm withholding judgement on this Soylent thing because there seems to be quite a bit of controversy, but I can't say I agree that it isn't solving a problem.

jacques_chester 13y ago
1. There are existing MRPs. 2. There are companies that will prepare and deliver meals for you. Usually lower in sodium than dining out / take-away. 3. Soylent is surrounded with controversy because of the deliberate avoidance of expert input leading to trivial but potentially life-threatening errors: http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1jvsie/the_man_who_thinks_he_never_has_to_eat_again_is/cbj5jw9 http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueReddit/comments/1jvsie/the_man_w...
- gaelian 13y ago
  I don't have a horse in this race one way or the other. I didn't back Soylent, I'm not for or against it, just an observer. But did you read that Herman guy's original comment[1]? He's borderline ranting from the outset. Amongst other ostensibly useful advice, he tells the Rob guy to include copper when he already did, the Rob guy gives a reply that seems to encourage further engagement but Herman does not respond. Herman then escalates and expands on his rant months later on reddit. Am I missing something that happened between Herman's orginal comment and his reddit rant? I'm not disregarding what Herman says, he seems knowledgeable. But if you act like a dick, it's less likely that most people will really warm to your advice. 1. http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424#comment-514 http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424#comment-514
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    Yes, he's a dick and he missed copper. I'm going to assign the dickishness to passion and the missed copper to missing copper in the list. But his general point is still correct: a mix of foods trumps a formula, especially given population variations in requirement and uptake.

thret 13y ago

A small just-add-water packet that can keep you alive for two weeks is going to find a home in every survival/hiking/camping/boat pack. Also things like disaster recovery, refugee camps, anywhere that you need to get sufficient food to a lot of people in a hurry.

munin 13y ago
really curious, you don't think this exists already? also, doesn't it have to be blended?

pbreit 13y ago

"I don't really see much of a problem with our food/nutrition system as is." I'm not sure how you cannot see a problem. Obesity alone affects 36% of the US adult population! I am looking forward to the energy boost and increased alertness (and could stand to lose a few pounds). As well as saving 5 or 10 hours a week on food preparation.

kamaal 13y ago

>>Yes, there are parts of the world where people are starving There is nothing like a food shortage in the world. There is problem with food distribution, often because its expensive to send food from point A to B and no one is ready to pay for it. The solution is to find those people jobs so that they can buy food. It has more to do with economic policy.

bsbechtel 13y ago
I know this as well as anyone...worked in agriculture for a long time. I was just trying to be succinct, that's why I didn't specifically say food shortage. Jobs help, but there are some serious technological hurdles that hinder food storage in the developing world, making it unreasonably expensive. If this stuff can be made in bulk for cheap and has a long shelf life, that's where I'm thinking it could be useful. Disclaimer - I only skimmed the article, so some of these details on the cost and shelf life could be stated and I missed them.