3 ms·

Thanks, I think your questions are important, because those are the exact questions people often ask when presented the idea of private protection agencies and

by snitko 13y ago

Thanks, I think your questions are important, because those are the exact questions people often ask when presented the idea of private protection agencies and other libertarian ideas. So I'd like to address them and maybe try to demonstrate that those ideas would indeed work (so please let me know if I managed to convince you at least a little bit). >Similarly, if you dislike the service of your private protection agency (which is still a government, just not monopolistic), then if you stop paying you'll just end up dead, unless you can pay for equivalent protection from someone else. So, at the very least I already have a choice between one protection agency and another. If one promises to kill me if I cancel my subscription, I simply go to another agency that will be happy to have my money and ask them to protect me against the one I dislike. Because both agencies are in the business to make money, they realize that violence is more expensive and nothing happens. Then people would usually say "But what if two agencies form a cartel"? Well, in that case, nothing really prevents a third agency to spring up as a competition and take customers away. Historically, cartels break down very fast without any intervention because one of the cartel members usually breaks the rules or an outside competitor emerges. Also, intimidating even one customer because he decides to unsubscribe is very likely to cause a chain reaction where a company simply loses its business. A cartel, though, is still a better situation than a government. If a cartel decides to kill or detain anyone who's not paying, it cannot actually claim, like government does, that it's a legitimate action, because people would take it for what it is - a violent action by a criminal gang. A great majority of people would be very likely to at least stop paying the cartel as soon as they realize it doesn't do them any good and some violent resistance is also very likely. A cartel is in the business of making money, thus it is in its interest to make more money and attract more customers. They can't print money, nor can they steal without losing a lot of customers. >if like me you find it distasteful that the US can abuse its economic power to trample people in other nations around the world, how do you tolerate the idea of billionaires doing whatever the hell they please Billionaires can't really do what they please to the extent a government can. First of all, any violence that is likely to happen would be paid for out of this billionaires pockets. Governments, on the other hand, don't pay for violence. They steal money from taxpayers, then use these money to finance wars, steal more money and indoctrinate people, convincing them that what they do is not actually theft. I don't really see rich people starting wars or intimidating other people. Why? Because it's a costly activity. Creating actual value is profitable. Inducing violence to steal money is only profitable when you can steal more than you spend in the long run.

foobarbazqux 13y ago
Look, I believe that the proposed system could work for people on average. The mafia works well for the people it protects, on average. Ask your average Sicilian shop owner if they are happy to pay the mafia for protection and they will tell you that yes they are, otherwise their store would surely get broken into. My problem is with the edge cases. What happens if I don't have any money, insurance, friends, family, or employment prospects? For example, if I'm schizophrenic, addicted to drugs and alcohol, and on the street? Outside of charitable giving, there's no guarantee that other customers will care about me, no company cares about me, so who goes to jail when I get murdered because I defecated on your lawn last night? As far as rich people go, basically they tend to run corporations and history shows that they abuse their power as much as possible to drive prices down. We see this with oil, diamonds, running shoes, electronics, etc. etc. etc. Corporations would be even more able to buy laws than they already are. Want to dump some nuclear waste in the river in China? Well, if it's going to make your profits go up enough in the US, you can probably afford to buy the regulations you need. To some extent this already happens. I want less of this, not more. It's strange, I'm having the same argument in a related thread concurrently, but basically my ideal is the opposite of yours: one government, one currency, one set of laws, no borders, no passports. I think they're about as likely as each other though, that is to say not at all anytime soon.
- snitko 13y ago
  >My problem is with the edge cases. What happens if a government starts abusing its power, spying on its own citizens, starting wars at their expense and detaining and killing innocent people all over the world? Or what if a person receiving a welfare check drinks and gambles on it? Because if we are to play the "what if" game, we should play it both ways. You can't completely avoid edge cases in any system. But you can minimize them and you can also be moral. Edge cases are no justification for the existence of government and legalized theft. If you really care about those unfortunate people, convince me to donate to a charity! Don't come to me with some IRS officers and steal my money because you think it's the right thing to do. Also a note about mafia. > Ask your average Sicilian shop owner if they are happy to pay the mafia for protection and they will tell you that yes they are, otherwise their store would surely get broken into. In this case, the situation is also distorted by the existence of a government. Government collects taxes and it doesn't care that much about the actual protection of people from mafia. It also controls tightly any possible market-solutions, making it prohibitively expensive for private companies to enter the protection market. Mafia knows it and exploits the situation, basically establishing a monopoly in one particular region.

by snitko 13y ago

foobarbazqux 13y ago

Look, I believe that the proposed system could work for people on average. The mafia works well for the people it protects, on average. Ask your average Sicilian shop owner if they are happy to pay the mafia for protection and they will tell you that yes they are, otherwise their store would surely get broken into. My problem is with the edge cases. What happens if I don't have any money, insurance, friends, family, or employment prospects? For example, if I'm schizophrenic, addicted to drugs and alcohol, and on the street? Outside of charitable giving, there's no guarantee that other customers will care about me, no company cares about me, so who goes to jail when I get murdered because I defecated on your lawn last night? As far as rich people go, basically they tend to run corporations and history shows that they abuse their power as much as possible to drive prices down. We see this with oil, diamonds, running shoes, electronics, etc. etc. etc. Corporations would be even more able to buy laws than they already are. Want to dump some nuclear waste in the river in China? Well, if it's going to make your profits go up enough in the US, you can probably afford to buy the regulations you need. To some extent this already happens. I want less of this, not more. It's strange, I'm having the same argument in a related thread concurrently, but basically my ideal is the opposite of yours: one government, one currency, one set of laws, no borders, no passports. I think they're about as likely as each other though, that is to say not at all anytime soon.

snitko 13y ago
>My problem is with the edge cases. What happens if a government starts abusing its power, spying on its own citizens, starting wars at their expense and detaining and killing innocent people all over the world? Or what if a person receiving a welfare check drinks and gambles on it? Because if we are to play the "what if" game, we should play it both ways. You can't completely avoid edge cases in any system. But you can minimize them and you can also be moral. Edge cases are no justification for the existence of government and legalized theft. If you really care about those unfortunate people, convince me to donate to a charity! Don't come to me with some IRS officers and steal my money because you think it's the right thing to do. Also a note about mafia. > Ask your average Sicilian shop owner if they are happy to pay the mafia for protection and they will tell you that yes they are, otherwise their store would surely get broken into. In this case, the situation is also distorted by the existence of a government. Government collects taxes and it doesn't care that much about the actual protection of people from mafia. It also controls tightly any possible market-solutions, making it prohibitively expensive for private companies to enter the protection market. Mafia knows it and exploits the situation, basically establishing a monopoly in one particular region.