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It would be interesting to know why the UK Govt. felt the need to do this. GCHQ would have known better than anyone that alternative copies of the data are avai

It would be interesting to know why the UK Govt. felt the need to do this. GCHQ would have known better than anyone that alternative copies of the data are available, and although the security argument does make a small amount of sense (it wouldn't be unheard of for a third-party state actor to go after this data, and it was mentioned previously that some of it would not/should not be released) it doesn't seem to be a very compelling argument. If there was going to be a concerted effort involving the US and Brazil to shut down the source legally, that would be one thing, but that seems an unlikely eventuality and it would have made more sense to do it in a co-ordinated fashion if that was the goal. Instead, they seem to achieved little more than pissing off the various people involved. That seems too a high-risk strategy to be deliberate (serious tin-foil hat territory). I also think these people are smart, smart enough that there must be some justifiable reason. This situation definitely does demonstrate what a poor location for journalism London truly is. We have some great journalism, and I'm ever-more baffled as to how that result has come about given libel / official secrets / lack of speech protection / etc. etc.

betterunix 13y ago
It is an intimidation tactic. Publish material the government wanted to keep secret, have your equipment destroyed. The cover story was about the security of information or some nonsense, but that is just meant to make things look and sound legal to the casual observer.
hvs 13y ago
Their only goal was to show the Guardian that they are only as free as the Government wants them to be. They know they can't put the Snowden genie back in the bottle, but they can certainly scare the next Snowden into shutting up before he goes public. Once you accept that we (the U.S. or the U.K.) no longer live in a free society (from the Gov't's perspective) all of their actions make complete sense.
redthrowaway 13y ago
I actually disagree with those who say this was a pure intimidation tactic, or that it was the GCHQ honestly trying to prevent the material from being published. Rather, I think Hanlon's Razor is relevant here: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The GCHQ is a large, cumbersome, government bureaucracy. I have no faith that they are any more or less competent than any other large, cumbersome, government bureaucracy. This is exactly the kind of decision made by a committee of ass-covering middle managers: it has the superficial quality of being an attempt to achieve the stated goal (recover or destroy the documents), and it absolves them of personal responsibility for failure (those pesky journalists are operating outside our jurisdiction). Nobody gets fired for buying IBM, and nobody loses their job over a ham-fisted attempt to meet the technical requirements passed down from on high.
- betterunix 13y ago
  Maybe so, but then why take so long to get around to this? GCHQ knew that the Guardian had these files all summer long. If this were a cover-your-ass move would they not have done this back in May or June? It could be that GCHQ is so bureaucratic that they need three months to figure out what to do with an information leak. On the other hand, the UK government did just intimidate Greenwald's partner for no apparent reason. This sounds more like retaliation at this point; the only bureaucratic inefficiency to it is the amount of time it took for the government to decide to retaliate.
  - redthrowaway 13y ago
    The British spy agencies have always had a well-earned reputation for surprising incompetence.[1] It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it took them three months to make a decision and it ended up being an idiotic one. [1] An entertaining read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER A more serious retrospective from someone who was there: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/donotmigrate/3561321/John-le-Carre-the-spies-who-lost-it.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/donotmigrate/3561321/John...
    - lttlrck 13y ago
      Thank you. The second link is a wonderful read.
      - redthrowaway 13y ago
        It's strange, I've never been able to get into le Carre's novels, but I do quite enjoy his writing in that piece.
greenyoda 13y ago
My guess is that GCHQ was doing this to cover their asses, knowing that they would be blamed if the data were to be stolen from the Guardian by a foreign government. They don't care if the same thing happens in Brazil or elsewhere, since they're not responsible for it.

betterunix 13y ago

It is an intimidation tactic. Publish material the government wanted to keep secret, have your equipment destroyed. The cover story was about the security of information or some nonsense, but that is just meant to make things look and sound legal to the casual observer.

hvs 13y ago

Their only goal was to show the Guardian that they are only as free as the Government wants them to be. They know they can't put the Snowden genie back in the bottle, but they can certainly scare the next Snowden into shutting up before he goes public. Once you accept that we (the U.S. or the U.K.) no longer live in a free society (from the Gov't's perspective) all of their actions make complete sense.

redthrowaway 13y ago

I actually disagree with those who say this was a pure intimidation tactic, or that it was the GCHQ honestly trying to prevent the material from being published. Rather, I think Hanlon's Razor is relevant here: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The GCHQ is a large, cumbersome, government bureaucracy. I have no faith that they are any more or less competent than any other large, cumbersome, government bureaucracy. This is exactly the kind of decision made by a committee of ass-covering middle managers: it has the superficial quality of being an attempt to achieve the stated goal (recover or destroy the documents), and it absolves them of personal responsibility for failure (those pesky journalists are operating outside our jurisdiction). Nobody gets fired for buying IBM, and nobody loses their job over a ham-fisted attempt to meet the technical requirements passed down from on high.

betterunix 13y ago
Maybe so, but then why take so long to get around to this? GCHQ knew that the Guardian had these files all summer long. If this were a cover-your-ass move would they not have done this back in May or June? It could be that GCHQ is so bureaucratic that they need three months to figure out what to do with an information leak. On the other hand, the UK government did just intimidate Greenwald's partner for no apparent reason. This sounds more like retaliation at this point; the only bureaucratic inefficiency to it is the amount of time it took for the government to decide to retaliate.
- redthrowaway 13y ago
  The British spy agencies have always had a well-earned reputation for surprising incompetence.[1] It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it took them three months to make a decision and it ended up being an idiotic one. [1] An entertaining read: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER A more serious retrospective from someone who was there: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/donotmigrate/3561321/John-le-Carre-the-spies-who-lost-it.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/donotmigrate/3561321/John...
  - lttlrck 13y ago
    Thank you. The second link is a wonderful read.
    - redthrowaway 13y ago
      It's strange, I've never been able to get into le Carre's novels, but I do quite enjoy his writing in that piece.

greenyoda 13y ago

My guess is that GCHQ was doing this to cover their asses, knowing that they would be blamed if the data were to be stolen from the Guardian by a foreign government. They don't care if the same thing happens in Brazil or elsewhere, since they're not responsible for it.