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You drastically overestimate the government. The US gov can be taken down from the inside if the people want to. They don't want to. Every human alive today has

You drastically overestimate the government. The US gov can be taken down from the inside if the people want to. They don't want to. Every human alive today has more power at their fingertips than a King a hundred years ago, but go ahead and believe that this is the worst it has ever been, it is a popular fantasy.

samstave 13y ago
Actually I am in no way saying it is the worst it has ever been. I am saying that we are making zero progress as a species toward a free reality, and this is unacceptable. Just because this version of America is "better than any other place" doesn't mean it is good. I refuse to accept such apologistic BS. Yeah it was worse. It is still bad and that is simply not acceptable.
- pdonis 13y ago
  we are making zero progress as a species toward a free reality Oh, please. You yourself are providing an obvious piece of evidence against this claim: here you are, posting on HN about how disappointed you are with the US government. People used to have to be rich and/or politically connected to put their thoughts in a place where they could be read by a large audience. Another piece of evidence is the fact that we are here discussing a public statement about the impact the NSA's activities are having on a service that provided significant value. A few decades ago the NSA was doing the same things they're doing now, but if it affected a particular individual, how were they going to get the word out? What newspaper would publish it? Now we don't have to rely on the media to get the word out. I get that you're concerned, but please try to keep things in perspective.
  - samstave 13y ago
    Right, so we should all just sit back and let things go the way they are going because I am an uppity little whiner that wants to be able to have a conversation with someone who lives far away without the ability to have that conversation brought up by an NSA subcontractor at any point in MY FUCKING LIFETIME in the future? Here is some perspective: The NSA is seeking to keep everything that anyone says for the duration of their entire life such that it is searchable whenever they want. That's downright dystopian. And we are to expect that things are going to get better from here on out?
    - pdonis 13y ago
      we should all just sit back and let things go the way they are Did I say that? I was not saying things are good; I was saying that your claim that we are making zero progress towards a more free humanity is too extreme. We have tools today to fight this that past generations did not have; that's progress. And we are to expect that things are going to get better from here on out? Obviously they won't if we ignore the fact that change is not one-sided. The Internet gives governments more ability to snoop, but it also gives us more ability to communicate and coordinate. I think you are concentrating too much on the former and not enough on the latter.
- hyperventilator 13y ago
  I disagree. We are making progress towards a more free society. Would I like to see more progress, of course and so would most people but they are not going be in favor of trashing the economy and putting their families at risk over a theoretical increase in progress. I do agree that laws cannot be secret for obvious reasons, but I am not sure you can have no secrets.

samstave 13y ago

Actually I am in no way saying it is the worst it has ever been. I am saying that we are making zero progress as a species toward a free reality, and this is unacceptable. Just because this version of America is "better than any other place" doesn't mean it is good. I refuse to accept such apologistic BS. Yeah it was worse. It is still bad and that is simply not acceptable.

pdonis 13y ago
we are making zero progress as a species toward a free reality Oh, please. You yourself are providing an obvious piece of evidence against this claim: here you are, posting on HN about how disappointed you are with the US government. People used to have to be rich and/or politically connected to put their thoughts in a place where they could be read by a large audience. Another piece of evidence is the fact that we are here discussing a public statement about the impact the NSA's activities are having on a service that provided significant value. A few decades ago the NSA was doing the same things they're doing now, but if it affected a particular individual, how were they going to get the word out? What newspaper would publish it? Now we don't have to rely on the media to get the word out. I get that you're concerned, but please try to keep things in perspective.
- samstave 13y ago
  Right, so we should all just sit back and let things go the way they are going because I am an uppity little whiner that wants to be able to have a conversation with someone who lives far away without the ability to have that conversation brought up by an NSA subcontractor at any point in MY FUCKING LIFETIME in the future? Here is some perspective: The NSA is seeking to keep everything that anyone says for the duration of their entire life such that it is searchable whenever they want. That's downright dystopian. And we are to expect that things are going to get better from here on out?
  - pdonis 13y ago
    we should all just sit back and let things go the way they are Did I say that? I was not saying things are good; I was saying that your claim that we are making zero progress towards a more free humanity is too extreme. We have tools today to fight this that past generations did not have; that's progress. And we are to expect that things are going to get better from here on out? Obviously they won't if we ignore the fact that change is not one-sided. The Internet gives governments more ability to snoop, but it also gives us more ability to communicate and coordinate. I think you are concentrating too much on the former and not enough on the latter.
hyperventilator 13y ago
I disagree. We are making progress towards a more free society. Would I like to see more progress, of course and so would most people but they are not going be in favor of trashing the economy and putting their families at risk over a theoretical increase in progress. I do agree that laws cannot be secret for obvious reasons, but I am not sure you can have no secrets.