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As a UK resident, I feel like I can speak to the question of whether we can describe the UK (I pass no judgement on the US) as oppressive or a police state, so

As a UK resident, I feel like I can speak to the question of whether we can describe the UK (I pass no judgement on the US) as oppressive or a police state, so here's my take on it. I don't necessarily agree that GCHQ or the NSA spying on UK subjects is a great idea, I don't like the idea that all of my communications are collected and available to analyse should I ever blow anything up or should someone in GCHQ take a disliking to me, but if I consider issue at hand, ie, do I feel oppressed or do I live under a police state, I'd say the answer is categorically no, I do not. I do not live in fear of the police kicking down my door because I voiced an anti-government view online. I do not believe that if I openly start supporting the wrong party I'll "disappear" as happens in other countries. I believe that elections in the UK are free and fair (for the most part) and I also believe that if a party came along that tried to turn the UK into the kind of country where those things were a reality then they would be sharply booted out of office. I also, incidentally, believe that if a party came along whose main policy was that they'd fiercely protect everyone's privacy they'd get precisely nowhere in the polls. Not because of any big conspiracy, but because people care more about their taxes and wheely bin collection rota's than about whether GCHQ knows who they email and why. Everyone I've spoken to on the subject already assumed they knew that anyway due to the fact that they are a spy agency. The tech-crowd's collective anger over the Snowden revelations isn't mirrored amongst the general population - at least in my experience. If it were, then no doubt things would change. That's how democracy works.

mpyne 13y ago
> I do not live in fear of the police kicking down my door because I voiced an anti-government view online. I do not believe that if I openly start supporting the wrong party I'll "disappear" as happens in other countries. I believe that elections in the UK are free and fair (for the most part) and I also believe that if a party came along that tried to turn the UK into the kind of country where those things were a reality then they would be sharply booted out of office. I was discussing this with some tech-minded friends on IRC the other day, and they pointed out the "chilling effect" you could get with massive surveillance. And I have to say I see their point. But after thinking about it some more I've realized that I've not once ever been scared to say something bad about the government (and yes, that's happened a lot). But I have been scared to discuss these topics with my friends, here on HN, etc. It's only a matter of time before I piss off the wrong hacker, so there is a "chilling effect" going on... it's just not the one all my friends are warning me about. :-/
- denis1 13y ago
  To me, the fact that you or I aren't scared isn't proof that a chilling effect does not exist. I'm not much of a "influencer" or "trend setter". Thus, even if i say something bad about the government, why would they bother? Things change when you're talking about journalists and political opposition. The fact that big brother is always listening makes a hell of a difference.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    > Things change when you're talking about journalists and political opposition. Sure, but I haven't yet found either American journalists or political opponents who were scared to tear into the U.S. government at any opportunity, or even any pretext for an opportunity. It's one of the ways by which Americans have maintained freedom of expression in that regard, is to make complaining about the government so commonplace as to be utterly and completely ordinary.
guelo 13y ago
You don't work in journalism or political activism and you don't care about people that do. Got it.

mpyne 13y ago

> I do not live in fear of the police kicking down my door because I voiced an anti-government view online. I do not believe that if I openly start supporting the wrong party I'll "disappear" as happens in other countries. I believe that elections in the UK are free and fair (for the most part) and I also believe that if a party came along that tried to turn the UK into the kind of country where those things were a reality then they would be sharply booted out of office. I was discussing this with some tech-minded friends on IRC the other day, and they pointed out the "chilling effect" you could get with massive surveillance. And I have to say I see their point. But after thinking about it some more I've realized that I've not once ever been scared to say something bad about the government (and yes, that's happened a lot). But I have been scared to discuss these topics with my friends, here on HN, etc. It's only a matter of time before I piss off the wrong hacker, so there is a "chilling effect" going on... it's just not the one all my friends are warning me about. :-/

denis1 13y ago
To me, the fact that you or I aren't scared isn't proof that a chilling effect does not exist. I'm not much of a "influencer" or "trend setter". Thus, even if i say something bad about the government, why would they bother? Things change when you're talking about journalists and political opposition. The fact that big brother is always listening makes a hell of a difference.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > Things change when you're talking about journalists and political opposition. Sure, but I haven't yet found either American journalists or political opponents who were scared to tear into the U.S. government at any opportunity, or even any pretext for an opportunity. It's one of the ways by which Americans have maintained freedom of expression in that regard, is to make complaining about the government so commonplace as to be utterly and completely ordinary.

guelo 13y ago

You don't work in journalism or political activism and you don't care about people that do. Got it.