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> Terrorists aren't just crazy folk Ok, explain the geopolitical motivations behind shooting a 14 year old school girl in the head. http://en.wikipedia.org/wi

> Terrorists aren't just crazy folk Ok, explain the geopolitical motivations behind shooting a 14 year old school girl in the head. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

FedRegister 13y ago
The goals of terrorism need not be worldwide. The point the gunman was trying to make when he shot Malala Yousafzai was not to the West. It was to the local people in Pakistan that education of girls would not be tolerated even if it were mandated. It was not to stop schools from opening, but it was to deter interest in the parents and girls from attending those schools. That is a political goal, and it absolutely motivated the shooter to commit an act of terror. One may argue about the legitimacy of that goal (it's certainly taken as a religious teaching in that part of the world), but that does not make the goal apolitical.
- uwotm8920 13y ago
  Ok excellent. We've established that it's terrorism. So how is that blowback for American policies?
  - FedRegister 13y ago
    Not all acts of terror are blowback for American policies. Nobody ever claimed that they were. Just that all acts of terror were blowback for something.
    - uwotm8920 13y ago
      So what is this a blowback for?
  - jacquesm 13y ago
    > We've established that it's terrorism. Something tells me you were aiming for that. But in fact it isn't, it's just people with a few screws loose in their head that are afraid of emancipated and educated women closely aligned with a religion. Think 'insecure males' before you think 'terrorism' in this particular case.
    - uwotm8920 13y ago
      Sure thing, Jacques. It's just a few silly individuals. It's not like there's a whole ideology and movement and organization that supports their actions. http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/21/250864.html http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/21/250864.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
      - ferdo 13y ago
        > It's not like there's a whole ideology and movement and organization that supports their actions. The same can be said of the culture of illegal invasions, illegal detentions, secret trials, secret jails, spying, drone attacks and other fun things brought by the National Security State. The Taliban is far younger than and wouldn't exist but for the American National Security State. Let's keep cause and effect in mind here.
        uwotm8920 13y ago
        So you're saying that Islamism (political Islam) is a response to American imperialism?
        ferdo 13y ago
        Not just a response. More like an effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
  - sophacles 13y ago
    You are now engaging in a particularly uncreative and disingenuous form of goalpost moving. Just because it's blowback doesn't mean it's for American policies. It's local blowback for local policies. You can continue to fake at naive, but seriously - you are smart enough to follow hacker news, you are smart enough to understand context. (Hint, it's basically the same as variable scoping). What is the point you are so uninterestingly trying to make? Are you just super sad and annoyed that someone dare suggest that the US didn't do something good? Or are you just a sockpuppet loser who needs to continue the "terrorism is evil and we are stopping it!" propaganda?
    - uwotm8920 13y ago
      It's not goalpost moving. > It's local blowback for local policies. Right. So a girl wants self determination and education and local policies allow her to do that and she gets shot in the head for that. The point is that there are real people in the world that have very regressive views and are willing to murder school girls to promote their ideology. These are dangerous people. As much as you would like to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's all a government conspiracy, these people do exist and they are smart and ambitious. > a sockpuppet loser who needs to continue the "terrorism is evil and we are stopping it!" propaganda Oh I disagree with you so I must be a shill. What a liberal and open minded person you are. Please fucking go back to reddit. Actually, on second thought, please invite all your friends here so this place burns down faster.
      - sophacles 13y ago
        You're some person who has been here for all of 13 hours and you're complaining about quality degradation of the site? Sure you aren't a sockpupptet. You just act like one and have a hard time with explanations that answer your questions rationally. Oh and you are goalpost moving because each rational explanation is met with a change of topic as if it invalidates the explanation - the definition of goalpost moving basically. Come back when you're old enough to do simple logic and basic reading comprehension.
cinquemb 13y ago
So because of such heinous acts that are committed by individuals (that happen everywhere around the world, everyday), the population must be subjugated with fear of entire groups of people?
- uwotm8920 13y ago
  Yup that's exactly what I said verbatim.
  - cinquemb 13y ago
    Pardon me, I was just trying to preempt where cherry picking examples usually leads to by responding with a question that could from be the point you were trying to make.
jacquesm 13y ago
Religious fanatics are committing atrocities all over the world. In Algeria they behead people, in Iraq they blow each other up, in Ireland they used to blow each other up (including schools) and in the US they shoot each other and innocent bystanders or professionals. Geopolitics don't enter into it.
- jcromartie 13y ago
  > in the US they shoot each other and innocent bystanders or professionals What are you referring to?
  - astrodust 13y ago
    Abortion doctors are often the target of violent actions. Bombings and fatal shootings have happened intermittently, but with enough regularity as to paint a pattern. Collateral damage is hardly a concern for those engaging in these events.
    - jcromartie 13y ago
      jaquesm said: > Religious fanatics are committing atrocities all over the world ... in the US they shoot each other and innocent bystanders or professionals This is really just a platitude. If we call anti-abortion attacks "Christian terrorism" (and we certainly should), then there have been 8 deaths in 16 years from fundamentalist US Christian terrorism. Compare this to the nearly daily, and sometimes more, bombings, shootings, and executions carried out by fundamentalist Islamists. Adding up to thousands of deaths and hundreds of attacks every year, Islam is several orders of magnitude more violent than any other religion (specifically 10^4 or 10^5, depending on what you are comparing it to).
      - astrodust 13y ago
        You can't just talk about religion without talking about geopolitical and demographic pressures. In poor Christian countries in Africa there is a lot of violence, too. Same goes for Hindus in the more destitute parts of India. Societies that are educated, where the population is not exploding, are generally more peaceful regardless of religion. You can't forget the history of violence within the Christian world, too, where incidents like the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre) was extremely bloody.
jcromartie 13y ago
Easy: when you oppress women, you prevent progressive democracy.
pessimizer 13y ago
Probably has something to do with sexual politics. Why would you order a drone strike to kill a 16 year old (along with 9 other people) eating at a restaurant? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki
- uwotm8920 13y ago
  Why would you assume that the drone strike was intended to kill this boy and not the other Al Qaida members he was with? That doesn't seem like a very intelligent thing to do.
njharman 13y ago
Just cause it doesn't target the entire world doesn't mean it's not terrorism. Terrorism can be local. That murder is very clearly meant to control and coerce people. The definition of terrorism.
betterunix 13y ago
It is not as though she was just some random school girl: "In early 2009, at the age of 11–12, Yousafzai wrote a blog under a pseudonym for the BBC detailing her life under Taliban rule, their attempts to take control of the valley, and her views on promoting education for girls. The following summer, a New York Times documentary was filmed about her life as the Pakistani military intervened in the region, culminating in the Second Battle of Swat. Yousafzai rose in prominence, giving interviews in print and on television, and she was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize by South African activist Desmond Tutu." As sad as this shooting is, it is not a refutation of the claim that terrorists have political motivations.

FedRegister 13y ago

The goals of terrorism need not be worldwide. The point the gunman was trying to make when he shot Malala Yousafzai was not to the West. It was to the local people in Pakistan that education of girls would not be tolerated even if it were mandated. It was not to stop schools from opening, but it was to deter interest in the parents and girls from attending those schools. That is a political goal, and it absolutely motivated the shooter to commit an act of terror. One may argue about the legitimacy of that goal (it's certainly taken as a religious teaching in that part of the world), but that does not make the goal apolitical.

uwotm8920 13y ago
Ok excellent. We've established that it's terrorism. So how is that blowback for American policies?
- FedRegister 13y ago
  Not all acts of terror are blowback for American policies. Nobody ever claimed that they were. Just that all acts of terror were blowback for something.
  - uwotm8920 13y ago
    So what is this a blowback for?
- jacquesm 13y ago
  > We've established that it's terrorism. Something tells me you were aiming for that. But in fact it isn't, it's just people with a few screws loose in their head that are afraid of emancipated and educated women closely aligned with a religion. Think 'insecure males' before you think 'terrorism' in this particular case.
  - uwotm8920 13y ago
    Sure thing, Jacques. It's just a few silly individuals. It's not like there's a whole ideology and movement and organization that supports their actions. http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/21/250864.html http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/21/250864.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
    - ferdo 13y ago
      > It's not like there's a whole ideology and movement and organization that supports their actions. The same can be said of the culture of illegal invasions, illegal detentions, secret trials, secret jails, spying, drone attacks and other fun things brought by the National Security State. The Taliban is far younger than and wouldn't exist but for the American National Security State. Let's keep cause and effect in mind here.
      - uwotm8920 13y ago
        So you're saying that Islamism (political Islam) is a response to American imperialism?
        ferdo 13y ago
        Not just a response. More like an effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
- sophacles 13y ago
  You are now engaging in a particularly uncreative and disingenuous form of goalpost moving. Just because it's blowback doesn't mean it's for American policies. It's local blowback for local policies. You can continue to fake at naive, but seriously - you are smart enough to follow hacker news, you are smart enough to understand context. (Hint, it's basically the same as variable scoping). What is the point you are so uninterestingly trying to make? Are you just super sad and annoyed that someone dare suggest that the US didn't do something good? Or are you just a sockpuppet loser who needs to continue the "terrorism is evil and we are stopping it!" propaganda?
  - uwotm8920 13y ago
    It's not goalpost moving. > It's local blowback for local policies. Right. So a girl wants self determination and education and local policies allow her to do that and she gets shot in the head for that. The point is that there are real people in the world that have very regressive views and are willing to murder school girls to promote their ideology. These are dangerous people. As much as you would like to bury your head in the sand and pretend that it's all a government conspiracy, these people do exist and they are smart and ambitious. > a sockpuppet loser who needs to continue the "terrorism is evil and we are stopping it!" propaganda Oh I disagree with you so I must be a shill. What a liberal and open minded person you are. Please fucking go back to reddit. Actually, on second thought, please invite all your friends here so this place burns down faster.
    - sophacles 13y ago
      You're some person who has been here for all of 13 hours and you're complaining about quality degradation of the site? Sure you aren't a sockpupptet. You just act like one and have a hard time with explanations that answer your questions rationally. Oh and you are goalpost moving because each rational explanation is met with a change of topic as if it invalidates the explanation - the definition of goalpost moving basically. Come back when you're old enough to do simple logic and basic reading comprehension.

cinquemb 13y ago

So because of such heinous acts that are committed by individuals (that happen everywhere around the world, everyday), the population must be subjugated with fear of entire groups of people?

uwotm8920 13y ago
Yup that's exactly what I said verbatim.
- cinquemb 13y ago
  Pardon me, I was just trying to preempt where cherry picking examples usually leads to by responding with a question that could from be the point you were trying to make.

jacquesm 13y ago

Religious fanatics are committing atrocities all over the world. In Algeria they behead people, in Iraq they blow each other up, in Ireland they used to blow each other up (including schools) and in the US they shoot each other and innocent bystanders or professionals. Geopolitics don't enter into it.

jcromartie 13y ago
> in the US they shoot each other and innocent bystanders or professionals What are you referring to?
- astrodust 13y ago
  Abortion doctors are often the target of violent actions. Bombings and fatal shootings have happened intermittently, but with enough regularity as to paint a pattern. Collateral damage is hardly a concern for those engaging in these events.
  - jcromartie 13y ago
    jaquesm said: > Religious fanatics are committing atrocities all over the world ... in the US they shoot each other and innocent bystanders or professionals This is really just a platitude. If we call anti-abortion attacks "Christian terrorism" (and we certainly should), then there have been 8 deaths in 16 years from fundamentalist US Christian terrorism. Compare this to the nearly daily, and sometimes more, bombings, shootings, and executions carried out by fundamentalist Islamists. Adding up to thousands of deaths and hundreds of attacks every year, Islam is several orders of magnitude more violent than any other religion (specifically 10^4 or 10^5, depending on what you are comparing it to).
    - astrodust 13y ago
      You can't just talk about religion without talking about geopolitical and demographic pressures. In poor Christian countries in Africa there is a lot of violence, too. Same goes for Hindus in the more destitute parts of India. Societies that are educated, where the population is not exploding, are generally more peaceful regardless of religion. You can't forget the history of violence within the Christian world, too, where incidents like the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre) was extremely bloody.

jcromartie 13y ago

Easy: when you oppress women, you prevent progressive democracy.

pessimizer 13y ago

Probably has something to do with sexual politics. Why would you order a drone strike to kill a 16 year old (along with 9 other people) eating at a restaurant? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki

uwotm8920 13y ago
Why would you assume that the drone strike was intended to kill this boy and not the other Al Qaida members he was with? That doesn't seem like a very intelligent thing to do.

njharman 13y ago

Just cause it doesn't target the entire world doesn't mean it's not terrorism. Terrorism can be local. That murder is very clearly meant to control and coerce people. The definition of terrorism.

betterunix 13y ago

It is not as though she was just some random school girl: "In early 2009, at the age of 11–12, Yousafzai wrote a blog under a pseudonym for the BBC detailing her life under Taliban rule, their attempts to take control of the valley, and her views on promoting education for girls. The following summer, a New York Times documentary was filmed about her life as the Pakistani military intervened in the region, culminating in the Second Battle of Swat. Yousafzai rose in prominence, giving interviews in print and on television, and she was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize by South African activist Desmond Tutu." As sad as this shooting is, it is not a refutation of the claim that terrorists have political motivations.