4 ms·

Personally I think that if terrorists want to destroy our way of life then they're going to need to do it themselves -- I won't do it for them by supporting dra

by ihsw 13y ago

Personally I think that if terrorists want to destroy our way of life then they're going to need to do it themselves -- I won't do it for them by supporting draconian, baseless, and broad-sweeping laws that delegate powers to people with questionable motives. If we ask these politicians how long it will take to stop the terrorist threat then I'm certain they'd respond "Years, decades, however long it takes." Safety, at all costs, is a prison cell.

frank_boyd 13y ago
> if terrorists want to destroy our way of life We should stop thinking the things that we've been brainwashed with. The basics are really simple: Don't be a d#ck and people will not hate you (and crazies will not be able to recruit "terrorists"). (If we had the chance to really get to know the people we call "terrorists", we'd find that even they would like to live their lives in peace and respect, before anything else, just like the rest of us.)
- 001sky 13y ago
  People dancing in the streets celebrating babies being killed.... Those aren't the terrorists. Thos are like the Justin Bieber fans of terrorism. Terrorism is a supply and demand thing. Killing babies gets some people excited and motivated. On the other side. Its like the war on drugs, that overlooks the DEMAND for drugs. Terrorism is borne out of a demand for bloodshed. The terrorists just supply the blood of women and children, because that's the lowest hanging fruit (the easiest high, if you will). So, at some level, I still agree with you that these' people are f'd up to be so bloodthirsty, its really still a more complex problem. As long as a baby killer is a hero, we will have baby killers. It really has nothing to do with the 'guilt' of the baby (that exploitation of the innocence of the victim, is actually the "terror" in terrorism).
  - Vivtek 13y ago
    People dance in the streets for everything in the Arab world. I can assure you that there is lots of hootin' and hollerin' in Indiana about similar atrocities visited upon our enemies - we just don't dance, is all.
    - 001sky 13y ago
      Giving your ignorance the benefit of the doubt, 'mericans are too busy getting high, and (/or) too fat and lazy (/or) just too uninterested in foreign affairs to give a rats ass about baying for the blood of XYZ special interst group with a terrorist agenda. The people that tend to "hoot and holla" in <repsonse> to violence are by far and large predominantly black and latinos. Or canadians after a hockey match. So you're walking down a slippery slope to racism and/or irellevance with this comparison. Terrorists are another animal...bred by demand and bloodlust...ex ante. As a general rule, Americans are too busy being ignorant (of the world's nuances) to have the kind of thing drive their day to day thinking. You do see this in inner cities occasionally (like London) but again, your looking at a racist subsampling of the population. I will say though, that the war on drugs is not a flattering picture for Americans. Drugs come into this country because of demand (primarily), not because of supply. The supply happens because the demand is so high, the economics are so compelling. The markup and profit margins on something like cocaine are enourmous. Just last week you had a couple of brits arrested in peru. carying $1-2m of drugs. Going to Ibiza. Do you really think the peruvians are the ones with the Drug problem? Of course not. It's rather the (relatively) rich europeans that want to get off their faces in the Clubs. Where, btw, paying for drugs is cheaper than booze. But absent gold or diamond mining, there is just nothing else with this kind of profit margin and $$/mass ratio available to people that live in the rual hilsides (where cocoa is farmed) in S. America. Which sort of gets us to root causes. War and drugs and Terrorism are demand side phenomena. But baby killing is not really all that trendy or fashionable. Except for in some parts of the world.
      - Vivtek 13y ago
        So - giving your own ignorance the benefit of the doubt - I'm assuming you intend to imply that baby killing is trendy in fashionable in the Arab world? But (white) people calling for the extermination of entire swathes of the world population don't exist in the United States? That's a pretty fucking big benefit I've extended your own ignorance. I recommend you pull your head out of your ass and examine reality for once, my friend. You've clearly never been to a red state if you think blacks, Latinos, and Moooslims have a monopoly on violent thought. I have no idea why you bring the recreational pharmaceutical economy into the picture. Consider learning to argue a single point. Are you trying to imply that only one vice can be attributed to a single ethnic group at a time? And wait. Are you honestly trying to tell me that trendy baby killing is a root cause of Muslim violence? To bring things back to your pharmaceutical argument - what the hell are you smoking, son?
- mikeash 13y ago
  It's funny how much people bought Bush's "they hate us for our freedom" line. Generally, they hate us for screwing over their part of the world. Osama's stated goal was to get the US out of Saudi Arabia. (He succeeded.) Killing a ton of people in Iraq hasn't helped either. And there's plenty more. The idea that they hate us because we're allowed to speak out against our government or whatever is just silly. I'm sure they delight in millions of Americans being forced to remove their shoes in airports, but that's not their goal.
  - ihsw 13y ago
    It's not that they hate our freedom, it's that they fear we will "bring" freedom to them. Unions, human rights (especially women's rights), and some other cornerstones of Western society are absolutely foreign to them, and some relish in the fact that foreigners don't want to live in their lands. They fear the breaking down of cultural and economic barriers.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
>> "Personally I think that if terrorists want to destroy our way of life then they're going to need to do it themselves" They've already done it. The point of terrorism is to case terror/fear. Between highly visible armed police in large cities and airports, invasions of privacy through spying, and attacks against the press and whistleblowers they've already forced us to change our way of live and give up freedoms.
- ihsw 13y ago
  No, I mean they're going to need to physically come here. Otherwise we need to continue going on with our lives with absolute indifference for their hatred of us and everything we stand for.
  - yessuccess 13y ago
    They don't hate US and what WE stand for. They hate our government and its foreign policy. Also the decade long occupation of their country.
    - cdash 13y ago
      WE allow this to happen.
    - ihsw 13y ago
      They absolutely hate us for what we stand for, for example there is a very large uproar in France about "forcing women to undress" when that's clearly not the intent of the "unveiling" laws. There are a lot of people and organizations that want to establish Sharia laws across the planet (effectively establishing a global caliphate) and they're not shy about it, look at what happened to Egypt. Once the MB got their election they tried to get their grubby hands into every nook and cranny of government and industry, and it was all orchestrated to cement another Islamic republic in the region. They see Western decadence as an affront to their way of life, and there are a lot of absolutists that have no interest in integration or cooperation. Their interests lie in world domination, and not the American kind of economic domination -- medieval domination with slavery or death planned for non-Muslims.

by ihsw 13y ago

frank_boyd 13y ago

> if terrorists want to destroy our way of life We should stop thinking the things that we've been brainwashed with. The basics are really simple: Don't be a d#ck and people will not hate you (and crazies will not be able to recruit "terrorists"). (If we had the chance to really get to know the people we call "terrorists", we'd find that even they would like to live their lives in peace and respect, before anything else, just like the rest of us.)

001sky 13y ago
People dancing in the streets celebrating babies being killed.... Those aren't the terrorists. Thos are like the Justin Bieber fans of terrorism. Terrorism is a supply and demand thing. Killing babies gets some people excited and motivated. On the other side. Its like the war on drugs, that overlooks the DEMAND for drugs. Terrorism is borne out of a demand for bloodshed. The terrorists just supply the blood of women and children, because that's the lowest hanging fruit (the easiest high, if you will). So, at some level, I still agree with you that these' people are f'd up to be so bloodthirsty, its really still a more complex problem. As long as a baby killer is a hero, we will have baby killers. It really has nothing to do with the 'guilt' of the baby (that exploitation of the innocence of the victim, is actually the "terror" in terrorism).
- Vivtek 13y ago
  People dance in the streets for everything in the Arab world. I can assure you that there is lots of hootin' and hollerin' in Indiana about similar atrocities visited upon our enemies - we just don't dance, is all.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    Giving your ignorance the benefit of the doubt, 'mericans are too busy getting high, and (/or) too fat and lazy (/or) just too uninterested in foreign affairs to give a rats ass about baying for the blood of XYZ special interst group with a terrorist agenda. The people that tend to "hoot and holla" in <repsonse> to violence are by far and large predominantly black and latinos. Or canadians after a hockey match. So you're walking down a slippery slope to racism and/or irellevance with this comparison. Terrorists are another animal...bred by demand and bloodlust...ex ante. As a general rule, Americans are too busy being ignorant (of the world's nuances) to have the kind of thing drive their day to day thinking. You do see this in inner cities occasionally (like London) but again, your looking at a racist subsampling of the population. I will say though, that the war on drugs is not a flattering picture for Americans. Drugs come into this country because of demand (primarily), not because of supply. The supply happens because the demand is so high, the economics are so compelling. The markup and profit margins on something like cocaine are enourmous. Just last week you had a couple of brits arrested in peru. carying $1-2m of drugs. Going to Ibiza. Do you really think the peruvians are the ones with the Drug problem? Of course not. It's rather the (relatively) rich europeans that want to get off their faces in the Clubs. Where, btw, paying for drugs is cheaper than booze. But absent gold or diamond mining, there is just nothing else with this kind of profit margin and $$/mass ratio available to people that live in the rual hilsides (where cocoa is farmed) in S. America. Which sort of gets us to root causes. War and drugs and Terrorism are demand side phenomena. But baby killing is not really all that trendy or fashionable. Except for in some parts of the world.
    - Vivtek 13y ago
      So - giving your own ignorance the benefit of the doubt - I'm assuming you intend to imply that baby killing is trendy in fashionable in the Arab world? But (white) people calling for the extermination of entire swathes of the world population don't exist in the United States? That's a pretty fucking big benefit I've extended your own ignorance. I recommend you pull your head out of your ass and examine reality for once, my friend. You've clearly never been to a red state if you think blacks, Latinos, and Moooslims have a monopoly on violent thought. I have no idea why you bring the recreational pharmaceutical economy into the picture. Consider learning to argue a single point. Are you trying to imply that only one vice can be attributed to a single ethnic group at a time? And wait. Are you honestly trying to tell me that trendy baby killing is a root cause of Muslim violence? To bring things back to your pharmaceutical argument - what the hell are you smoking, son?
mikeash 13y ago
It's funny how much people bought Bush's "they hate us for our freedom" line. Generally, they hate us for screwing over their part of the world. Osama's stated goal was to get the US out of Saudi Arabia. (He succeeded.) Killing a ton of people in Iraq hasn't helped either. And there's plenty more. The idea that they hate us because we're allowed to speak out against our government or whatever is just silly. I'm sure they delight in millions of Americans being forced to remove their shoes in airports, but that's not their goal.
- ihsw 13y ago
  It's not that they hate our freedom, it's that they fear we will "bring" freedom to them. Unions, human rights (especially women's rights), and some other cornerstones of Western society are absolutely foreign to them, and some relish in the fact that foreigners don't want to live in their lands. They fear the breaking down of cultural and economic barriers.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

>> "Personally I think that if terrorists want to destroy our way of life then they're going to need to do it themselves" They've already done it. The point of terrorism is to case terror/fear. Between highly visible armed police in large cities and airports, invasions of privacy through spying, and attacks against the press and whistleblowers they've already forced us to change our way of live and give up freedoms.

ihsw 13y ago
No, I mean they're going to need to physically come here. Otherwise we need to continue going on with our lives with absolute indifference for their hatred of us and everything we stand for.
- yessuccess 13y ago
  They don't hate US and what WE stand for. They hate our government and its foreign policy. Also the decade long occupation of their country.
  - cdash 13y ago
    WE allow this to happen.
  - ihsw 13y ago
    They absolutely hate us for what we stand for, for example there is a very large uproar in France about "forcing women to undress" when that's clearly not the intent of the "unveiling" laws. There are a lot of people and organizations that want to establish Sharia laws across the planet (effectively establishing a global caliphate) and they're not shy about it, look at what happened to Egypt. Once the MB got their election they tried to get their grubby hands into every nook and cranny of government and industry, and it was all orchestrated to cement another Islamic republic in the region. They see Western decadence as an affront to their way of life, and there are a lot of absolutists that have no interest in integration or cooperation. Their interests lie in world domination, and not the American kind of economic domination -- medieval domination with slavery or death planned for non-Muslims.