5 ms·

This is why my friends ask me as an Iranian how the hell I can be happy living in the U.S. I can't explain them that U.S. citizens are viction of the same polic

by msoad 13y ago

This is why my friends ask me as an Iranian how the hell I can be happy living in the U.S. I can't explain them that U.S. citizens are viction of the same policies. The thing that I don't understand is, who are those elite people who make this kind of decisions? Who are they? Who leads the whole thing?

speeder 13y ago
They are the ones that get your taxes you asshole. If you don't want to depose them, stop.giving them money to pull stunts like this. Although US citizens love to be victims, .no atom bomb would be dropped.without US people.money.
- drcube 13y ago
  You realize paying taxes is mandatory in the US, right?
  - speeder 13y ago
    You realize that people can still for example move out, right? I wrote in a agressive tone, because I see LOTS of US people that just keep complaining about their government, and do nothing about it, beside voting (that clearly, is not working), and when they get for example a 9/11 on their head, they don't understand why other people hate them. It is a thing of owning up to your mistakes, if you are not making a effort to avoid supporting your government that do evil actions, you are evil yourself, because you are allowing you are providing resources to make evil. I am Brazillian, and I am tired of hearing here from US tourists for example, that they don't understand why they are hated, if the US meddling here is not their fault, but their government fault. I don't believe the US population is stupid, or they DO support the government evil actions, or they just don't care, saying that it is "not your fault" is NOT acceptable when you are providing taxes that pay the wages of CIA people that disappear my friends.
    - mapleoin 13y ago
      Would you say you condone all the actions done by your country's government. If not, how are you taking action against them?
      - speeder 13y ago
        First, our country is much less tame than US in outright evilness... It is a government that is very inefficient, and corrupt, but does not drop bombs on other people heads to get minerals. Aside from that, what I am doing? First, I don't pay most taxes, literally. I don't even bother looking at what taxes I should pay. The tax that I pay correctly is the state (not federal) and municipal ones. Second, I support with campaigning and donations when I can, some politicians. Third, I support protests, specially the big and loud ones (like the ones that attracted international media here, and DID resulted into a couple of law changes in our favour). Fourth, if after next elections things don't improve, I plan in moving somewhere else, and renouncing my citizenship as soon as I can. I don't want to stay citizen of a country that I don't agree with the actions of its population, the government is only a reflection of the local population, maybe with the exception of extreme cases of autocracy. Fifth, after I amass enough power, I plan in engaging in politics in a active manner, whatever manner is needed at the time, and where I am.
    - MichaelGG 13y ago
      >You realize that people can still for example move out, right? You realize that US citizens have global tax liability, even if they've never lived in the US, right? (Certain countries' taxes count as credit, and you get some exemption, but US persons are supposed to report all foreign assets and pay taxes.)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
pampa 13y ago
Aliens! "there are live ETs on Earth at this present time, and at least two of them are working with the United States government." http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/05/paul-hellyer-aliens-ufos-video_n_3390295.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/05/paul-hellyer-aliens-...
thiagoharry 13y ago
People behind big corporations, with plenty of money. They control a huge portion of economy and can invest huge amounts of money with lobby in the government. For these people, an independent country with lots of oil is a nuisance, something that lows profit. It's better to have a country with lots of oil with a corrupt government or something that we can control. A government that in exchange of our help will sell cheap oil to us.
madaxe 13y ago
Nobody. Create any sufficiently complicated system and it'll do random crap that nobody expects or desires. The sad truth is that there's no "man behind the curtain", just a gaggle of idiots and processes that make no sense, and the rest is butterflies and hurricanes. This is a far scarier reality than there being some mysterious illuminati-like sect running the show, as it means there is no enemy to fight but our own nature.
- msoad 13y ago
  I can't believe it's random. If you look back in history, you will see United States had long term plans for Middle East. Even at present time, they "fix" Libya problems in a week and let Syria burn for two years. I'm sure they have tons of thought behind those decisions
  - madaxe 13y ago
    It's rather more pseudothought than thought - groupthink and machiavellian manoeuvring and politicking, rather than cohesive decision making about any given matter at hand, and the continuation of policies not because they make sense but because they are policy.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
calibraxis 13y ago
Aaron Swartz reviewed Chomsky's "Understanding Power" (http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/epiphany http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/epiphany). It's the best introduction I know. The system isn't a secret; there's no conspiracy. Obama really is president; election money has a deciding effect on elections; our "democracy" is top-down (and anyone who takes history/politics seriously knows it isn't really a democracy, though it has some democratic forms); our economic resources are owned by elites; etc. But just as we don't use commercials to help us evaluate the technical specs of some commodity, we shouldn't believe utterances of those in power (it's no secret they're generally written by professionals called "speechwriters"). Instead, we look at their decisions, actions, institutional forces, history, etc. Tends to make things a lot clearer. [Edit: also try looking at things from the perspective of an observer from Mars; it's oddly helpful.]
- lukifer 13y ago
  > (it's no secret they're generally written by professionals called "speechwriters") In the same vein as "This message was paid for/approved by _______", I would love it if every political speech had to end with a credit to the speechwriter.

by msoad 13y ago

speeder 13y ago

They are the ones that get your taxes you asshole. If you don't want to depose them, stop.giving them money to pull stunts like this. Although US citizens love to be victims, .no atom bomb would be dropped.without US people.money.

drcube 13y ago
You realize paying taxes is mandatory in the US, right?
- speeder 13y ago
  You realize that people can still for example move out, right? I wrote in a agressive tone, because I see LOTS of US people that just keep complaining about their government, and do nothing about it, beside voting (that clearly, is not working), and when they get for example a 9/11 on their head, they don't understand why other people hate them. It is a thing of owning up to your mistakes, if you are not making a effort to avoid supporting your government that do evil actions, you are evil yourself, because you are allowing you are providing resources to make evil. I am Brazillian, and I am tired of hearing here from US tourists for example, that they don't understand why they are hated, if the US meddling here is not their fault, but their government fault. I don't believe the US population is stupid, or they DO support the government evil actions, or they just don't care, saying that it is "not your fault" is NOT acceptable when you are providing taxes that pay the wages of CIA people that disappear my friends.
  - mapleoin 13y ago
    Would you say you condone all the actions done by your country's government. If not, how are you taking action against them?
    - speeder 13y ago
      First, our country is much less tame than US in outright evilness... It is a government that is very inefficient, and corrupt, but does not drop bombs on other people heads to get minerals. Aside from that, what I am doing? First, I don't pay most taxes, literally. I don't even bother looking at what taxes I should pay. The tax that I pay correctly is the state (not federal) and municipal ones. Second, I support with campaigning and donations when I can, some politicians. Third, I support protests, specially the big and loud ones (like the ones that attracted international media here, and DID resulted into a couple of law changes in our favour). Fourth, if after next elections things don't improve, I plan in moving somewhere else, and renouncing my citizenship as soon as I can. I don't want to stay citizen of a country that I don't agree with the actions of its population, the government is only a reflection of the local population, maybe with the exception of extreme cases of autocracy. Fifth, after I amass enough power, I plan in engaging in politics in a active manner, whatever manner is needed at the time, and where I am.
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    >You realize that people can still for example move out, right? You realize that US citizens have global tax liability, even if they've never lived in the US, right? (Certain countries' taxes count as credit, and you get some exemption, but US persons are supposed to report all foreign assets and pay taxes.)
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

pampa 13y ago

Aliens! "there are live ETs on Earth at this present time, and at least two of them are working with the United States government." http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/05/paul-hellyer-aliens-ufos-video_n_3390295.html http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/05/paul-hellyer-aliens-...

thiagoharry 13y ago

People behind big corporations, with plenty of money. They control a huge portion of economy and can invest huge amounts of money with lobby in the government. For these people, an independent country with lots of oil is a nuisance, something that lows profit. It's better to have a country with lots of oil with a corrupt government or something that we can control. A government that in exchange of our help will sell cheap oil to us.

madaxe 13y ago

Nobody. Create any sufficiently complicated system and it'll do random crap that nobody expects or desires. The sad truth is that there's no "man behind the curtain", just a gaggle of idiots and processes that make no sense, and the rest is butterflies and hurricanes. This is a far scarier reality than there being some mysterious illuminati-like sect running the show, as it means there is no enemy to fight but our own nature.

msoad 13y ago
I can't believe it's random. If you look back in history, you will see United States had long term plans for Middle East. Even at present time, they "fix" Libya problems in a week and let Syria burn for two years. I'm sure they have tons of thought behind those decisions
- madaxe 13y ago
  It's rather more pseudothought than thought - groupthink and machiavellian manoeuvring and politicking, rather than cohesive decision making about any given matter at hand, and the continuation of policies not because they make sense but because they are policy.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

calibraxis 13y ago

Aaron Swartz reviewed Chomsky's "Understanding Power" (http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/epiphany http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/epiphany). It's the best introduction I know. The system isn't a secret; there's no conspiracy. Obama really is president; election money has a deciding effect on elections; our "democracy" is top-down (and anyone who takes history/politics seriously knows it isn't really a democracy, though it has some democratic forms); our economic resources are owned by elites; etc. But just as we don't use commercials to help us evaluate the technical specs of some commodity, we shouldn't believe utterances of those in power (it's no secret they're generally written by professionals called "speechwriters"). Instead, we look at their decisions, actions, institutional forces, history, etc. Tends to make things a lot clearer. [Edit: also try looking at things from the perspective of an observer from Mars; it's oddly helpful.]

lukifer 13y ago
> (it's no secret they're generally written by professionals called "speechwriters") In the same vein as "This message was paid for/approved by _______", I would love it if every political speech had to end with a credit to the speechwriter.