3 ms·

If you read some of Michael Pollan's books, one of the key observations that he makes about the food system is that people assume organic/natural/etc. foods are

by zdean 13y ago

If you read some of Michael Pollan's books, one of the key observations that he makes about the food system is that people assume organic/natural/etc. foods are expensive when in fact most of the stuff you buy at the grocery store (and fast food joint) is made artificially cheaper. The #1 culprit of this is the subsidizing of the corn industry. Corn is the source of the corn syrup that ends up in all of those soft drinks, snacks, salad dressings etc. On the protein side of it, it's used as the primary feed for cows and other animals. So you have junk food that's cheaper than it ought to be at the grocery store and fast food that's cheaper than it ought to be at your favorite drive-through. I'm not sure why we keep looking downstream at the problem when there is in fact an underlying SINGLE cause upstream that can address a lot of the issues. Remove the subsidies, allow food to cost a bit more, financially incentivize people to eat 1) better food and 2) smaller quantities of food, and let the downstream problems like obesity, diabetes, etc. take care of themselves.

zdean 13y ago
http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-becomes-king/ http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-become...
epoxyhockey 13y ago
Corn is the source of the corn syrup that ends up in all of those soft drinks, snacks, salad dressings etc Corn syrup has permeated just about anything that doesn't come off of a vine or out of the ground. HFCS is added to bread, fruit juices, hot dogs and even soy sauce. It is quite a chore to find bread without HFCS.
- zdean 13y ago
  Corn is in 75% of supermarket products...it's just as hard finding whole classes of other products without corn syrup.
- tankbot 13y ago
  So true and so irritating! Health detriments aside, I can't stand this food. It's too sweet! Once you get used to good food that doesn't contain gobs of salt and HFCS, the stuff that does is disgusting.
craigyk 13y ago
I might receive a lot of flak for this, but isn't HFCS sweeter than more natural sugars? As in, you can achieve the same amount of sweetness with fewer calories? Personally I think it gets a bad rap. The bigger problem is the lack of physical activity and the massive input of calories... the 'quality' of those calories just isn't, IMO, as big a deal as people make it out to be.
- plorkyeran 13y ago
  HFCS is often only 45% fructose (it's only high fructose in comparison to regular corn syrup), so it's slightly less sweet than "regular" sugar.
- zdean 13y ago
  Sugar costs 40% more than corn syrup...so regardless of its 'sweetness density', it's a much more prevalent sweetener: http://www.forbes.com/sites/katetaylor/2012/07/30/how-the-drought-impacts-corn-crops-and-your-grocery-bill/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/katetaylor/2012/07/30/how-the-dr... But there are also medical opinions forming that indicate corn syrup is more damaging than natural sugars...there was a post here on HN a few weeks back that I can't find right now about this.
Houshalter 13y ago
Corn subsidies are tiny compared to the amount of corn produced. I don't think it would be that much cheaper if the subsidies were removed, and slight increase in price wouldn't solve obesity. Prices have risen before for other reasons and yet we still have the same problem.
- zdean 13y ago
  "One need look no further than the $190 billion farm bill President Bush signed last month to wonder whose interests are really being served here. Under the 10-year program, taxpayers will pay farmers $4 billion a year to grow ever more corn, this despite the fact that we struggle to get rid of the surplus the plant already produces. The average bushel of corn (56 pounds) sells for about $2 today; it costs farmers more than $3 to grow it. But rather than design a program that would encourage farmers to plant less corn—which would have the benefit of lifting the price farmers receive for it—Congress has decided instead to subsidize corn by the bushel, thereby insuring that zea mays dominion over its 125,000-square-mile American habitat will go unchallenged." http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-becomes-king/ http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-become...
- inafield 13y ago
  If I recall the history correctly, it wasn't the subsidies as much as it was the tariffs on sugars. The state (of being) that US farmers are in isn't what it used to be.
jcampbell1 13y ago
Corn subsidies are not the problem. Ethanol acts a a negative economic subsidy for corn in the food supply. I don't have an answer to the obesity problem, but I know blaming everything on corn completely contradicts the evidence. Mexico has a worse obesity problem than the US, but their soft drinks are made from sugar, not HFCS. The ethanol mandate pulled massive amounts of corn products off US shelfs, yet made no difference on obesity. Michael Pollan may be on the right track with his advocacy, but let's not dumb the debate down to focusing on something there is little evidence for.
- zdean 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Mexico http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Mexico I can't say what the cause of the high-salt is, but we have a good idea what might be contributing (at least) to the high sugar/high fat parts of their diet.
dkrich 13y ago
I think you're being awfully kind to the average American by assuming that if bad foods are more expensive they will have a desire to consume less of them. As an aside, not only is corn subsidized, sugar cane has heavy import tariffs levied against it to prevent American farmers from having to wage a price war. I believe that a person's diet is very often (not always) shaped by cultural influences. If your parents forced you to eat a healthy diet as a child you are infinitely more likely to maintain those habits when you get older. I know this is true for me, and the converse is true for a lot of people I know. In any case, I can't agree more with this article. If you ever want to see a microcosm of American society up-close and personal, just take a trip to your local 7-Eleven. See what people are buying and moreover, what is being offered for sale. I don't believe 7-Eleven is evil. What you see on the shelves is simply a reflection of what their customer base wants. If their customers wanted salads and tofu, that's all you would see on the shelves instead of one salad in the back of a bin surrounded by donuts, candy bars, beer, rotating hot dogs, and lottery tickets. The fact is that the Americans who get enough exercise and eat a sensible diet are a depressing rarity. I know people who alternate between McDonald's and Five Guys every day. I don't blame the businesses and I don't blame the companies pushing the products. People have more choice now than ever before which is a good thing but I wish there were a way to protect kids from parents with terrible judgment.

by zdean 13y ago

zdean 13y ago

http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-becomes-king/ http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-become...

epoxyhockey 13y ago

Corn is the source of the corn syrup that ends up in all of those soft drinks, snacks, salad dressings etc Corn syrup has permeated just about anything that doesn't come off of a vine or out of the ground. HFCS is added to bread, fruit juices, hot dogs and even soy sauce. It is quite a chore to find bread without HFCS.

zdean 13y ago
Corn is in 75% of supermarket products...it's just as hard finding whole classes of other products without corn syrup.
tankbot 13y ago
So true and so irritating! Health detriments aside, I can't stand this food. It's too sweet! Once you get used to good food that doesn't contain gobs of salt and HFCS, the stuff that does is disgusting.

craigyk 13y ago

I might receive a lot of flak for this, but isn't HFCS sweeter than more natural sugars? As in, you can achieve the same amount of sweetness with fewer calories? Personally I think it gets a bad rap. The bigger problem is the lack of physical activity and the massive input of calories... the 'quality' of those calories just isn't, IMO, as big a deal as people make it out to be.

plorkyeran 13y ago
HFCS is often only 45% fructose (it's only high fructose in comparison to regular corn syrup), so it's slightly less sweet than "regular" sugar.
zdean 13y ago
Sugar costs 40% more than corn syrup...so regardless of its 'sweetness density', it's a much more prevalent sweetener: http://www.forbes.com/sites/katetaylor/2012/07/30/how-the-drought-impacts-corn-crops-and-your-grocery-bill/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/katetaylor/2012/07/30/how-the-dr... But there are also medical opinions forming that indicate corn syrup is more damaging than natural sugars...there was a post here on HN a few weeks back that I can't find right now about this.

Houshalter 13y ago

Corn subsidies are tiny compared to the amount of corn produced. I don't think it would be that much cheaper if the subsidies were removed, and slight increase in price wouldn't solve obesity. Prices have risen before for other reasons and yet we still have the same problem.

zdean 13y ago
"One need look no further than the $190 billion farm bill President Bush signed last month to wonder whose interests are really being served here. Under the 10-year program, taxpayers will pay farmers $4 billion a year to grow ever more corn, this despite the fact that we struggle to get rid of the surplus the plant already produces. The average bushel of corn (56 pounds) sells for about $2 today; it costs farmers more than $3 to grow it. But rather than design a program that would encourage farmers to plant less corn—which would have the benefit of lifting the price farmers receive for it—Congress has decided instead to subsidize corn by the bushel, thereby insuring that zea mays dominion over its 125,000-square-mile American habitat will go unchallenged." http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-becomes-king/ http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/when-a-crop-become...
inafield 13y ago
If I recall the history correctly, it wasn't the subsidies as much as it was the tariffs on sugars. The state (of being) that US farmers are in isn't what it used to be.

jcampbell1 13y ago

Corn subsidies are not the problem. Ethanol acts a a negative economic subsidy for corn in the food supply. I don't have an answer to the obesity problem, but I know blaming everything on corn completely contradicts the evidence. Mexico has a worse obesity problem than the US, but their soft drinks are made from sugar, not HFCS. The ethanol mandate pulled massive amounts of corn products off US shelfs, yet made no difference on obesity. Michael Pollan may be on the right track with his advocacy, but let's not dumb the debate down to focusing on something there is little evidence for.

zdean 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Mexico http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Mexico I can't say what the cause of the high-salt is, but we have a good idea what might be contributing (at least) to the high sugar/high fat parts of their diet.

dkrich 13y ago

I think you're being awfully kind to the average American by assuming that if bad foods are more expensive they will have a desire to consume less of them. As an aside, not only is corn subsidized, sugar cane has heavy import tariffs levied against it to prevent American farmers from having to wage a price war. I believe that a person's diet is very often (not always) shaped by cultural influences. If your parents forced you to eat a healthy diet as a child you are infinitely more likely to maintain those habits when you get older. I know this is true for me, and the converse is true for a lot of people I know. In any case, I can't agree more with this article. If you ever want to see a microcosm of American society up-close and personal, just take a trip to your local 7-Eleven. See what people are buying and moreover, what is being offered for sale. I don't believe 7-Eleven is evil. What you see on the shelves is simply a reflection of what their customer base wants. If their customers wanted salads and tofu, that's all you would see on the shelves instead of one salad in the back of a bin surrounded by donuts, candy bars, beer, rotating hot dogs, and lottery tickets. The fact is that the Americans who get enough exercise and eat a sensible diet are a depressing rarity. I know people who alternate between McDonald's and Five Guys every day. I don't blame the businesses and I don't blame the companies pushing the products. People have more choice now than ever before which is a good thing but I wish there were a way to protect kids from parents with terrible judgment.