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Exactly, even though it's not really "even" considering they're profiting off your work (unless you're a necessary evil). I guess you get some other perks if yo

Exactly, even though it's not really "even" considering they're profiting off your work (unless you're a necessary evil). I guess you get some other perks if you're not bound to a horrible contract, like paid sick time and vacation. Personally, I go about things in the same way, but hope I get a union job I just applied for. IMO, that changes the whole solidarity/loyalty relationship.

jes 13y ago
If someone offers you a job, for a certain wage, and you accept it freely, how are you not even when you get everything that you agreed upon? Alternatively, if the business makes losses rather than profits, would you kick in your share to keep things even?
- NoodleIncident 13y ago
  That's called a startup. /s
- tokenizer 13y ago
  Don't get me wrong, you're right. It is even legally, but not in nominal terms of value. If I do front end web development for 15$ an hour, but am sold to a customer for 150$ an hour, there's no question in terms of value that the arrangement is unfair. As for your point regarding business success, that's not really my call nor do I have a say. How can I accept losses on behalf of another employee's decision? Surely I'd be fired for bringing in less value than I was earning in the role mentioned.
  - jes 13y ago
    With respect, if you think the deal is unfair to you, why do you accept it? Why don't you just deal with the customer directly?
    - bobbles 13y ago
      If someone is on $15/hr and billed at $150/hr chances are they do not have the experience or portfolio of work to be able to go and work for themselves billing $150/hr
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    See, as an ex-freelance and now employer, I can tell that a company does a lot more than provide a portfolio. The tradeoff is on multiple levels: - I pay my employees far less than what I can bill my clients. - However, if there is no client, I still pay my employees their full rate. - I pay all associated costs: Workplace and equipment, health insurance, paid holidays, accounting, lawyers where needed, ... - I pay for the acquisition costs for new jobs - I bear the full risk of a job going wrong and pay for all settlement costs involved - I pay the difference if a job is not profitable because the employee fucked up and everything takes longer than planned. - I get to organise a replacement if the employee falls ill. Now, $15/hr and $150/hr is quite a bit of a margin, but we don't know if it's before or after taxes and what benefits are included in the pay package. From my personal experience a factor of 4-5 is on the lower end of profitability, so a factor of 10 may still be reasonable. I invested a lot of capital and time in the company and the reputation that allows me to charge a high rate. That investment needs to pay of at some point. You choose the safer of two alternatives by getting employed. If you prefer the high risk, high reward route, the go freelance but don't be surprised if things don't go as smooth as you'd think.
    - jes 13y ago
      Thank you for understanding this and stating it.

jes 13y ago

If someone offers you a job, for a certain wage, and you accept it freely, how are you not even when you get everything that you agreed upon? Alternatively, if the business makes losses rather than profits, would you kick in your share to keep things even?

NoodleIncident 13y ago
That's called a startup. /s
tokenizer 13y ago
Don't get me wrong, you're right. It is even legally, but not in nominal terms of value. If I do front end web development for 15$ an hour, but am sold to a customer for 150$ an hour, there's no question in terms of value that the arrangement is unfair. As for your point regarding business success, that's not really my call nor do I have a say. How can I accept losses on behalf of another employee's decision? Surely I'd be fired for bringing in less value than I was earning in the role mentioned.
- jes 13y ago
  With respect, if you think the deal is unfair to you, why do you accept it? Why don't you just deal with the customer directly?
  - bobbles 13y ago
    If someone is on $15/hr and billed at $150/hr chances are they do not have the experience or portfolio of work to be able to go and work for themselves billing $150/hr
- Xylakant 13y ago
  See, as an ex-freelance and now employer, I can tell that a company does a lot more than provide a portfolio. The tradeoff is on multiple levels: - I pay my employees far less than what I can bill my clients. - However, if there is no client, I still pay my employees their full rate. - I pay all associated costs: Workplace and equipment, health insurance, paid holidays, accounting, lawyers where needed, ... - I pay for the acquisition costs for new jobs - I bear the full risk of a job going wrong and pay for all settlement costs involved - I pay the difference if a job is not profitable because the employee fucked up and everything takes longer than planned. - I get to organise a replacement if the employee falls ill. Now, $15/hr and $150/hr is quite a bit of a margin, but we don't know if it's before or after taxes and what benefits are included in the pay package. From my personal experience a factor of 4-5 is on the lower end of profitability, so a factor of 10 may still be reasonable. I invested a lot of capital and time in the company and the reputation that allows me to charge a high rate. That investment needs to pay of at some point. You choose the safer of two alternatives by getting employed. If you prefer the high risk, high reward route, the go freelance but don't be surprised if things don't go as smooth as you'd think.
  - jes 13y ago
    Thank you for understanding this and stating it.