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> "With v3, we've gone flat. Don't call it a trend—it's all about customization, folks." I hope everyone catches that part of the post. It's very important, I

> "With v3, we've gone flat. Don't call it a trend—it's all about customization, folks." I hope everyone catches that part of the post. It's very important, I think, based on the previous HN thread comments. I've been quite surprised at how many people are in an uproar about v3 being flat. People have been saying things like "it's a dumb trend", "horrible UX", "so ugly", etc. For a skeleton starter template like this, flat is good. Having the design flat encourages you to build on it or theme it to your OWN style so all of the sites using Bootstrap don't end up looking the same (like they have in past versions). It was also annoying in past versions when you had to declare no gradients, or reverse engineer things to lose the "default theme". Making it flat now allows you to build up, where past versions made you go backwards first, then build the theme the way you wanted. I hope more people realize that rational now they have specifically called it out. With that said, well done everyone that helped on the project! Great work! :)

colmvp 13y ago
A dumb 'trend' that's been around for decades. And agreed on your points. I'm looking forward to no longer having to override superfluous elements for the sake of customization.
tsurantino 13y ago
And for people who are still concerned (and even though this is mentioned directly in the post - some people won't necessarily read it). There is a theme provided, which I personally think improves on Bootstrap 2's version. http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/
- kipple 13y ago
  The subtle color enhancements are nice (nothing like lowering contrast to make things look classier) but the button hovers appear broken.. that was an important bit of sparkle in twbs2 I hope 'twas just an oversight.
  - nobodysfool 13y ago
    The hovers work, but they are so subtle you will barely notice it. I had to get very close to my monitor to notice on colors other than the default greyish white.
  - icambron 13y ago
    You can see a slight darkening around the edges; it's easiest to see on the default gray button. I agree: this needs to a be a stronger indicator.
    - kipple 13y ago
      They've acknowledged broken hovers as a bug, good ones are slated to return in 3.0.1 https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/9879 https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/9879
    - spotj 13y ago
      I also agree. The cue on the colored buttons is nowhere near noticeable enough.
davidw 13y ago
> Having the design flat encourages you to build on it or theme it to your OWN style so all of the sites using Bootstrap don't end up looking the same I don't want to build on it. My customers don't care that it looks like other sites, they just want something that looks professional and is easy to use, something which Bootstrap 2 does way better than I could do alone, and for which I am eternally grateful. My customers range from a little to really non technical, so I think that "making them think" about what might be a button and what might be a label is a regression. So if I want to upgrade, it's not just "encouragement" to customize, it's a necessity, and I consider it added work since I did not have to do it with the previous version of Bootstrap. Hopefully, the theme mentioned in the article will suit my needs. > With that said, well done everyone that helped on the project! Great work! :) I can agree with that! I am very thankful for Bootstrap.
- bluetidepro 13y ago
  I completely understand what you are saying, and they have already solved your problem. You can still easily grab the V2 theme to lay on top of V3 to generate all those pre-done styles. The beauty is that it's no longer forced in V3 for people that do want to build up, like it was in V2. It's a win-win! ;) As tsurantino said in another comment, see here: http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/
  - davidw 13y ago
    Yeah, it's probably good enough, although it still seems kind of flat-ish: http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/base-css.html#buttons http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/base-css.html#buttons compared to http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ It was kind of them to make the extra effort though, for those of us who are happier with the older look and feel. Just a bit more like actual buttons, and it'd be perfect.
    - lowboy 13y ago
      The button gradients are toned down a little, but they're still there. It's still closer to the v2 style than it is to flat.
d23 13y ago
Seriously, no. I don't care what the rationale is, compare these two pages: http://getbootstrap.com/ http://getbootstrap.com/ http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/ http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/ The first is infinitely more confusing to the eye. There's no heirarchy; I don't know where to look. The second is clean while still giving me a sense of where I need to go to accomplish what I'd like to accomplish.
- bti 13y ago
  That's a problem with whoever designed the new landing page then, not a problem with Bootstrap 3.0.
- lowboy 13y ago
  Try going past the front pages: http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/ http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/ http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/getting-started.html http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/getting-started.html
  - davidw 13y ago
    You're right - the second one really starts to shine there, doesn't it. The colors are more alive and vivid and less washed-out looking.
    - skeletonjelly 13y ago
      I wonder why they went with that transparent button then.
  - STRML 13y ago
    The low-contrast trend is really being shown here. I don't get why it's so popular. We've got left navigation with grey text on a grey background, no borders, no underlines indicating that they are link. The top bar is purple, with a purple hero board just below it. It's low-contrast city... and I have no idea where my eye should go. Bootstrap 3 looks old and Bootstrap 2 looks new.
JeremyMorgan 13y ago
Exactly. I also do not care for the flat stuff most of the time. The old design was much clearer and more defined. But the entire idea of starting with minimal base that you build up from is by far worth the trade off for me. I don't expect bootstrap to design my site for me anyway.
pbreit 13y ago
Now they're going to all look the same...but worse!

colmvp 13y ago

A dumb 'trend' that's been around for decades. And agreed on your points. I'm looking forward to no longer having to override superfluous elements for the sake of customization.

tsurantino 13y ago

And for people who are still concerned (and even though this is mentioned directly in the post - some people won't necessarily read it). There is a theme provided, which I personally think improves on Bootstrap 2's version. http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/

kipple 13y ago
The subtle color enhancements are nice (nothing like lowering contrast to make things look classier) but the button hovers appear broken.. that was an important bit of sparkle in twbs2 I hope 'twas just an oversight.
- nobodysfool 13y ago
  The hovers work, but they are so subtle you will barely notice it. I had to get very close to my monitor to notice on colors other than the default greyish white.
- icambron 13y ago
  You can see a slight darkening around the edges; it's easiest to see on the default gray button. I agree: this needs to a be a stronger indicator.
  - kipple 13y ago
    They've acknowledged broken hovers as a bug, good ones are slated to return in 3.0.1 https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/9879 https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/9879
  - spotj 13y ago
    I also agree. The cue on the colored buttons is nowhere near noticeable enough.

davidw 13y ago

> Having the design flat encourages you to build on it or theme it to your OWN style so all of the sites using Bootstrap don't end up looking the same I don't want to build on it. My customers don't care that it looks like other sites, they just want something that looks professional and is easy to use, something which Bootstrap 2 does way better than I could do alone, and for which I am eternally grateful. My customers range from a little to really non technical, so I think that "making them think" about what might be a button and what might be a label is a regression. So if I want to upgrade, it's not just "encouragement" to customize, it's a necessity, and I consider it added work since I did not have to do it with the previous version of Bootstrap. Hopefully, the theme mentioned in the article will suit my needs. > With that said, well done everyone that helped on the project! Great work! :) I can agree with that! I am very thankful for Bootstrap.

bluetidepro 13y ago
I completely understand what you are saying, and they have already solved your problem. You can still easily grab the V2 theme to lay on top of V3 to generate all those pre-done styles. The beauty is that it's no longer forced in V3 for people that do want to build up, like it was in V2. It's a win-win! ;) As tsurantino said in another comment, see here: http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/
- davidw 13y ago
  Yeah, it's probably good enough, although it still seems kind of flat-ish: http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/base-css.html#buttons http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/base-css.html#buttons compared to http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ http://getbootstrap.com/examples/theme/ It was kind of them to make the extra effort though, for those of us who are happier with the older look and feel. Just a bit more like actual buttons, and it'd be perfect.
  - lowboy 13y ago
    The button gradients are toned down a little, but they're still there. It's still closer to the v2 style than it is to flat.

d23 13y ago

Seriously, no. I don't care what the rationale is, compare these two pages: http://getbootstrap.com/ http://getbootstrap.com/ http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/ http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/ The first is infinitely more confusing to the eye. There's no heirarchy; I don't know where to look. The second is clean while still giving me a sense of where I need to go to accomplish what I'd like to accomplish.

bti 13y ago
That's a problem with whoever designed the new landing page then, not a problem with Bootstrap 3.0.
lowboy 13y ago
Try going past the front pages: http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/ http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/ http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/getting-started.html http://getbootstrap.com/2.3.2/getting-started.html
- davidw 13y ago
  You're right - the second one really starts to shine there, doesn't it. The colors are more alive and vivid and less washed-out looking.
  - skeletonjelly 13y ago
    I wonder why they went with that transparent button then.
- STRML 13y ago
  The low-contrast trend is really being shown here. I don't get why it's so popular. We've got left navigation with grey text on a grey background, no borders, no underlines indicating that they are link. The top bar is purple, with a purple hero board just below it. It's low-contrast city... and I have no idea where my eye should go. Bootstrap 3 looks old and Bootstrap 2 looks new.

JeremyMorgan 13y ago

Exactly. I also do not care for the flat stuff most of the time. The old design was much clearer and more defined. But the entire idea of starting with minimal base that you build up from is by far worth the trade off for me. I don't expect bootstrap to design my site for me anyway.

pbreit 13y ago

Now they're going to all look the same...but worse!