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I downvoted you and am leaving this comment in hopes that those reading this thread don't get the impression that the entire HN community supports such a despic

I downvoted you and am leaving this comment in hopes that those reading this thread don't get the impression that the entire HN community supports such a despicable outlook. I, for one, am grateful for all of the many important contributions to furthering computer science and its associated industries by non english speaking individuals.

cliveowen 13y ago
Do you ever stop and think that maybe if people were less lazy and started learning English things would actually improve? Information (including "important contributions to furthering computer science") would spread more rapidly, people would have access to an endless stream of news outlets and have a more detailed view of the world. Also, there won't be any need to waste money on translators (do you know how much money is wasted by governments translating official documents, bills and whatnot?). Do you have any idea of the abysmal quality of translation of the many textbooks that are used everyday by college students around the world? But yeah, I guess ignoring the lingua franca of the world and furthering the status quo is the easiest path.
- nraynaud 13y ago
  you know that the biggest advances in Maths are made in japanese, russian and french, right? You know that english got a status of lingua franca only gradually, meaning that for a long time there was actually no reason whatsoever to learn it. And now the best one, you know that thanks to the US money sent to Israel, Palestine is voluntarily maintained a third world country by its neighbor who impairs any form of education (or other form of societal development whatsoever, like having a port, and airport, fishing, trading, traveling etc.) This guy learned some web stuff and some english (whose alphabet and spelling directions are different) while the most powerful nation in the world was sending obstacles (by which I mean missiles and bullets). I think he already did quite some homework.
  - cliveowen 13y ago
    Now, in the present, we live in a world where English is the dominant language (again, having a huge number of speakers it's a whole different thing) so, as a citizen, you have to adapt. Secondly, at a no point I said anything against this guy, he at least put in the effort and is commendable. My whole point was that thinking about resorting to translators instead of thinking about how to improve the number of English speakers is being narrow-minded. It's like saying: building a dam is hard, let's just keep the floods coming.
    - walid 13y ago
      Just because everyone on the web corrects everyone else, English is not the most spoken language in the world. It is the third most while Arabic is the fifth to my surprise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_...
      - cliveowen 13y ago
        Jesus, now I know why everyone is so lazy to learn a new language: you're lazy enough to not read a comment let alone learn an entire language. I already said it: yes, English it's not the most spoken language, but it's the dominant in that it transcends cultures and countries. Saying that Chinese is the dominant language because is the most spoken is like saying that ants are the most influential beings because they're the species most prevalent on earth.
        Gigablah 13y ago
        Did you just compare the Chinese to ants?
        laichzeit0 13y ago
        Did your poor sensibilities just get offended?
      - 13y ago
- xerophyte12932 13y ago
  english is my 2nd language and i am very fluent in it. But have YOU ever stopped to think that why should everyone strive to learn english, or be labeled "lazy" otherwise? Isn't it lazy of the english speaking community to expect everyone to speak in THEIR language rather than the other way around?
  - cliveowen 13y ago
    It's the dominant language (yeah most people speak Chinese because there's so many of them but English is spoken by people of all ethnicities) so it's obvious that non English speakers should put in the effort and not the other way around. The most influential textbooks, novels, papers are written in English: ignoring them because learning a language is hard it's pure laziness.
- jamiequint 13y ago
  Wow, what an ignorant comment. There are currently more Mandarin Chinese speaking engineers graduating than English speaking ones and more people worldwide that speak the language as well (both native speakers and overall), yet I don't see everyone in America clamoring to learn Chinese. Of course the world would be more efficient if translation was not necessary, but demanding everyone stop being so "lazy" and learn English is a presumptuous jingoistic fantasy.
  - cliveowen 13y ago
    Read my response to xerophyte12932.
- Aldo_MX 13y ago
  I have to assume that you can communicate fluently in a non-Germanic language, and that you already know that you can't change the way you think about concepts in a way that doesn't resemble your native language. Otherwise: Con esa forma tan cerrada de pensar, por favor absténgase de opinar.
  - cliveowen 13y ago
    Yes, read my other responses, I'm tired of repeating myself. Also, the only narrow minded here is the one who advocates for a fragmented world and the resulting slow flowing of information.
    - dwaltrip 13y ago
      The only thing these nice commentators are advocating for is not blasting the character of others not conforming to your worldview. You are allowed to have an opinion, but the way you judge the choices of other people is rather unproductive.
      - cliveowen 13y ago
        All I see here are people going against me without offering a real reason as to why a fragmented world, the status quo, should be promoted.
        dwaltrip 13y ago
        It is one thing to point out the benefits of certain ideas that differ from the status quo, but being dogmatic and rude will gain you no points.
        cliveowen 13y ago
        Again, no counterargument. You're only proving me right.
        13y ago
- dwaltrip 13y ago
  Holy shit man, I feel bad for you. Having such a distorted view of life must suck. I would try to explain my reasoning but judging by your other replies, it would be a fruitless endeavor.
  - cliveowen 13y ago
    The lack of a response only suggests that you don't have a counterargument, and I don't blame you, it's hard to counter the obvious.
    - polymatter 13y ago
      Its also hard to counter the oblivious. If your concern was efficiency, you would instead promote that everyone learn Lojban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban). Then at least you would have a regular, computationally parseable, culturally neutral language with unambiguous phonology and finely grained grammatical control. You would also have an established standard (English is not the same everywhere) and no need to appear to be an intolerant racist too since everyone has to learn a language. Plus it would be much much quicker to learn to fluency than English.
- andyhmltn 13y ago
  Do you know Chinese? Spanish? French? Unless you are fluent in all three and a lot of other languages, then you have absolutely _no_ grounds to make such a foolish comment. You are as 'lazy' as you claim others to be. I would even argue that you are much much worse since not only are not learning other languages you are sitting on a forum complaining that other people can't speak your own and they must work just so you have less to do.

cliveowen 13y ago

Do you ever stop and think that maybe if people were less lazy and started learning English things would actually improve? Information (including "important contributions to furthering computer science") would spread more rapidly, people would have access to an endless stream of news outlets and have a more detailed view of the world. Also, there won't be any need to waste money on translators (do you know how much money is wasted by governments translating official documents, bills and whatnot?). Do you have any idea of the abysmal quality of translation of the many textbooks that are used everyday by college students around the world? But yeah, I guess ignoring the lingua franca of the world and furthering the status quo is the easiest path.

nraynaud 13y ago
you know that the biggest advances in Maths are made in japanese, russian and french, right? You know that english got a status of lingua franca only gradually, meaning that for a long time there was actually no reason whatsoever to learn it. And now the best one, you know that thanks to the US money sent to Israel, Palestine is voluntarily maintained a third world country by its neighbor who impairs any form of education (or other form of societal development whatsoever, like having a port, and airport, fishing, trading, traveling etc.) This guy learned some web stuff and some english (whose alphabet and spelling directions are different) while the most powerful nation in the world was sending obstacles (by which I mean missiles and bullets). I think he already did quite some homework.
- cliveowen 13y ago
  Now, in the present, we live in a world where English is the dominant language (again, having a huge number of speakers it's a whole different thing) so, as a citizen, you have to adapt. Secondly, at a no point I said anything against this guy, he at least put in the effort and is commendable. My whole point was that thinking about resorting to translators instead of thinking about how to improve the number of English speakers is being narrow-minded. It's like saying: building a dam is hard, let's just keep the floods coming.
  - walid 13y ago
    Just because everyone on the web corrects everyone else, English is not the most spoken language in the world. It is the third most while Arabic is the fifth to my surprise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_...
    - cliveowen 13y ago
      Jesus, now I know why everyone is so lazy to learn a new language: you're lazy enough to not read a comment let alone learn an entire language. I already said it: yes, English it's not the most spoken language, but it's the dominant in that it transcends cultures and countries. Saying that Chinese is the dominant language because is the most spoken is like saying that ants are the most influential beings because they're the species most prevalent on earth.
      - Gigablah 13y ago
        Did you just compare the Chinese to ants?
        laichzeit0 13y ago
        Did your poor sensibilities just get offended?
    - 13y ago
xerophyte12932 13y ago
english is my 2nd language and i am very fluent in it. But have YOU ever stopped to think that why should everyone strive to learn english, or be labeled "lazy" otherwise? Isn't it lazy of the english speaking community to expect everyone to speak in THEIR language rather than the other way around?
- cliveowen 13y ago
  It's the dominant language (yeah most people speak Chinese because there's so many of them but English is spoken by people of all ethnicities) so it's obvious that non English speakers should put in the effort and not the other way around. The most influential textbooks, novels, papers are written in English: ignoring them because learning a language is hard it's pure laziness.
jamiequint 13y ago
Wow, what an ignorant comment. There are currently more Mandarin Chinese speaking engineers graduating than English speaking ones and more people worldwide that speak the language as well (both native speakers and overall), yet I don't see everyone in America clamoring to learn Chinese. Of course the world would be more efficient if translation was not necessary, but demanding everyone stop being so "lazy" and learn English is a presumptuous jingoistic fantasy.
- cliveowen 13y ago
  Read my response to xerophyte12932.
Aldo_MX 13y ago
I have to assume that you can communicate fluently in a non-Germanic language, and that you already know that you can't change the way you think about concepts in a way that doesn't resemble your native language. Otherwise: Con esa forma tan cerrada de pensar, por favor absténgase de opinar.
- cliveowen 13y ago
  Yes, read my other responses, I'm tired of repeating myself. Also, the only narrow minded here is the one who advocates for a fragmented world and the resulting slow flowing of information.
  - dwaltrip 13y ago
    The only thing these nice commentators are advocating for is not blasting the character of others not conforming to your worldview. You are allowed to have an opinion, but the way you judge the choices of other people is rather unproductive.
    - cliveowen 13y ago
      All I see here are people going against me without offering a real reason as to why a fragmented world, the status quo, should be promoted.
      - dwaltrip 13y ago
        It is one thing to point out the benefits of certain ideas that differ from the status quo, but being dogmatic and rude will gain you no points.
        cliveowen 13y ago
        Again, no counterargument. You're only proving me right.
        13y ago
dwaltrip 13y ago
Holy shit man, I feel bad for you. Having such a distorted view of life must suck. I would try to explain my reasoning but judging by your other replies, it would be a fruitless endeavor.
- cliveowen 13y ago
  The lack of a response only suggests that you don't have a counterargument, and I don't blame you, it's hard to counter the obvious.
  - polymatter 13y ago
    Its also hard to counter the oblivious. If your concern was efficiency, you would instead promote that everyone learn Lojban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban). Then at least you would have a regular, computationally parseable, culturally neutral language with unambiguous phonology and finely grained grammatical control. You would also have an established standard (English is not the same everywhere) and no need to appear to be an intolerant racist too since everyone has to learn a language. Plus it would be much much quicker to learn to fluency than English.
andyhmltn 13y ago
Do you know Chinese? Spanish? French? Unless you are fluent in all three and a lot of other languages, then you have absolutely _no_ grounds to make such a foolish comment. You are as 'lazy' as you claim others to be. I would even argue that you are much much worse since not only are not learning other languages you are sitting on a forum complaining that other people can't speak your own and they must work just so you have less to do.