3 ms·

But he is not getting $60K. He is getting $36K, or $18 an hour if he works just 40 hours a week. I suspect he works at least twice that which basically says t

But he is not getting $60K. He is getting $36K, or $18 an hour if he works just 40 hours a week. I suspect he works at least twice that which basically says that he will be working below minimum wage. My point is that he is being treated as an employee and as an employee, he is being cheated.

tptacek 17y ago
He's getting $36k if he takes the deal. We agree, he shouldn't take the deal. We disagree that he's being cheated; right now, it just looks like a poor deal.
- dennykmiu 17y ago
  I think it is a poor deal not because of the money or the tax consequence. I think it is a poor deal because he is being treated as an employee and not as a co-founder. Entrepreneurs often preceive their net worth based on how much effort they have put in and not on how much more it will take to get to the end goal. So it is not the details that made this such a bad deal but the assumption.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    He's not a cofounder. He makes 60k a year (or 36k, if he accepts a bad deal). I'm pretty sure both of us have been bona fide cofounders with employees, and that we both know the difference; we don't talk about our monthly paycheck, because we eat last.
    - dennykmiu 17y ago
      joshhart: If you are still reading the comments, you need to decide if you are a co-founder or an employee. If you believe you are an employee, then structure a better deal that is more fair which basically says that you are getting paid at market value ($3K now and $2K as deferred compensation which is essentially a senior loan to the company that the owner needs to pay you back in the future). Then at the same time, negotiate a stock plan which you can purchase upfront for just a few hundred dollars which the owner can buy back if you do not perform. However, my own advise is that being employee #1, you are essentially a co-founder (because of the current down market, there isn't going to be much upsides for a long long time).
      - joshhart 17y ago
        Hi Denny, I appreciate the advice. Honestly, I believe myself to be an employee. I'll be making a pretty decent salary and getting a few percent of equity upfront. The founder has worked very hard on the produce for about 15 months or so. I probably didn't give enough information earlier but I'm not sure exactly what I can or can't say legally. I also don't think I really understood how ESPPs worked before. We'd revalue the company and I'd be able to purchase at a reduced rate. I don't think that's a bad deal, especially for a product and monetization model I really believe in.
        dennykmiu 17y ago
        That sounds great. We are ALL on your side. Good luck.

tptacek 17y ago

He's getting $36k if he takes the deal. We agree, he shouldn't take the deal. We disagree that he's being cheated; right now, it just looks like a poor deal.

dennykmiu 17y ago
I think it is a poor deal not because of the money or the tax consequence. I think it is a poor deal because he is being treated as an employee and not as a co-founder. Entrepreneurs often preceive their net worth based on how much effort they have put in and not on how much more it will take to get to the end goal. So it is not the details that made this such a bad deal but the assumption.
- tptacek 17y ago
  He's not a cofounder. He makes 60k a year (or 36k, if he accepts a bad deal). I'm pretty sure both of us have been bona fide cofounders with employees, and that we both know the difference; we don't talk about our monthly paycheck, because we eat last.
  - dennykmiu 17y ago
    joshhart: If you are still reading the comments, you need to decide if you are a co-founder or an employee. If you believe you are an employee, then structure a better deal that is more fair which basically says that you are getting paid at market value ($3K now and $2K as deferred compensation which is essentially a senior loan to the company that the owner needs to pay you back in the future). Then at the same time, negotiate a stock plan which you can purchase upfront for just a few hundred dollars which the owner can buy back if you do not perform. However, my own advise is that being employee #1, you are essentially a co-founder (because of the current down market, there isn't going to be much upsides for a long long time).
    - joshhart 17y ago
      Hi Denny, I appreciate the advice. Honestly, I believe myself to be an employee. I'll be making a pretty decent salary and getting a few percent of equity upfront. The founder has worked very hard on the produce for about 15 months or so. I probably didn't give enough information earlier but I'm not sure exactly what I can or can't say legally. I also don't think I really understood how ESPPs worked before. We'd revalue the company and I'd be able to purchase at a reduced rate. I don't think that's a bad deal, especially for a product and monetization model I really believe in.
      - dennykmiu 17y ago
        That sounds great. We are ALL on your side. Good luck.