7 ms·

Given the causes are myriad and well-defined (as he lists them), it sounds like this was normal exhaustion, not depression which is generally sadness without ca

by nether 13y ago

Given the causes are myriad and well-defined (as he lists them), it sounds like this was normal exhaustion, not depression which is generally sadness without cause. Depression calls for therapy and sometimes antidepressant drugs, healthy sadness just requires removing the cause of sadness and doesn't constitute mental illness. We need to distinguish between negative feelings that are a part of mental illness, versus those warranted by an unhappy life.

cpncrunch 13y ago
Incorrect: depression is not defined as "sadness without cause". Most definitions say that stressful life events are a common trigger for depression. [edited] Exhaustion from stressful life events can result is extreme, suicidal depression that definitely qualifies as "mental illness" - not just a few "negative feelings".
- chrismonsanto 13y ago
  > I also think you need to engage your brain before spouting BS about something you apparently don't know anything about. There is really no reason to be so hostile. Perhaps to show respect to the issue under discussion (depression) we could all resolve to be a little kinder to those we speak with.
  - cpncrunch 13y ago
    nether was basically saying "you didn't have depression, just a little sadness". This was very rude and ignorant in my opinion.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
      - cpncrunch 13y ago
        edited
- dhughes 13y ago
  You didn't seem to grasp what nether wrote. Contrasting normal everyday sadness versus clinical depression, requiring medication, is accurate.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    But nether said that depression is "sadness without cause" which appears to be incorrect. At least, according to this page from the NIH: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtml I don't see anything there that indicates that sadness must be "without cause" to constitute depression. Contrasting normal everyday sadness versus clinical depression, requiring medication, is accurate. True. But we should be careful when making that distinction, whether for ourselves or others, as the line isn't necessarily cut and dried. I think just dismissing someone's report of being "depressed" as "that's just normal sadness" is a very dangerous mindset. If someone's sad enough to choose the label "depressed" for themselves, that alone probably suggests that it's a matter to be taken seriously.
  - cpncrunch 13y ago
    First of all, I don't think Brad had "everyday sadness". Secondly, he may have required medication.
  - RougeFemme 13y ago
    Medication ??and/or psychological therapy??
hyperventilator 13y ago
That's the thing about depression, when you are sad for no apparent reason it is absolutely maddening. Then when something bad does happen you almost feel better because now you have a legitimate reason for the way you are feeling. It is a very bad feedback loop.
ealloc 13y ago
Depression is not "sadness without cause". It is a mental condition thought by some to be best described as a chemical imbalance in the brain, and often does have a very clear cause. Head injuries, drugs, and other physical injuries and stresses commonly cause depression, even if the person was otherwise emotionally well. "More than half of all people who suffer a traumatic brain injury will become depressed in the year after the injury". In this case, he mentions a debilitating 50 mile run, a bike accident, and an operation, which very well could be the main causes rather than any job or emotional stress.
mindcrime 13y ago
We need to distinguish between negative feelings that are a part of mental illness, versus those warranted by an unhappy life. That's absolutely true, but I think it's dangerous to dismiss someone's description of being depressed. At the end of the day, probably nobody (or a small handful of people) on HN are actually qualified to offer a proper diagnosis. So the rest of us can speculate all we want, but for someone who is depressed, to be perceived as making light of their situation, or dismissing it, might actually lead them to an even worse place. Of course, I have no idea if Brad Feld reads HN or not, so maybe it's a moot point in this specific case. But still, I would encourage trying to have a great deal of empathy for people who refer to themselves as "depressed".
benched 13y ago
This view, this dichotomy, is popular, insidious, infuriating to me as a sufferer, and very overgeneralized as far as I can tell. I guarantee you I have suffered very 'real' depression, even been diagnosed several times if you're into that, and it just so happens that I have always been able to articulate the causes. There may be people who are not able to articulate causes at a given time, for whatever reason - but even that does not mean causes aren't there. The way I see it is this. Life as a biological organism is a two-way interaction between your biological systems, and the putative 'outside world'. And most of what you experience as your life occurs within your brain. There is lots of feedback between your brain and the outside world, notably between your brain and the brains of others. And there is lots of feedback within your own brain, with itself. This is all true for every person, whether or not you happen to have had a run-in with the first-world, western mental health system, and received a 'diagnosis' based on someone's observation of a small part of your process that is deemed dysfunctional. What we call depression is extremely common, but we don't like it and we wish we didn't have to experience it, so we call it an illness. But it is a very common reaction to certain types of adversity: abuse, failures, disappointments, dissolution of important relationships. Such patterns are well-known even to clinicians. The view of depression as just a 'disease' that afflicts the brain for no reason... I can't imagine where this originated. I've experienced deep depression, numerous times, and I've known people who did as well. I could tell you all the reasons. Maybe they make happy people uncomfortable. I know that when I've been happy, it has been tempting to believe that I earned it, chose it, made it for myself - something self-empowering. The reasons for depression usually boil down to prolonged alienation and frustration. Being in a place in life that is maladaptive, and not being able to find a way out in a short amount of time. Not being able to find a job, not being able to make friends or find love, or being in a relationship that is very unhappy and not being able to get out. Being in some life situation that can't be willed out of, like having a felony record, or an incurable disease. Not having completed enough education. Having low self-esteem or perceiving oneself to be a failure, for subjective but still real reasons like being ugly, overweight, or socially awkward. I feel like one of the causes of the persistent misunderstanding of this condition is that most people seem to want to believe happy people are in control of their happiness (whether that means being in control of their external conditions, or control of their attitude), and also want to excuse depressed people from having to be in control of their depression. This is partly sensible, and perhaps rightly motivated, because happiness is characterized by feeling in sufficient control of ones state of being, and depression is a state of prolonged lack of control. But this does not in any way suggest that the depression was random. Look behind that defeated, disconnected state of mind, turn back the clock, and you will find events that led the person into that horrible state.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
vacri 13y ago
The phrase you're looking for is "clinical depression". 'unhappy life' is still depression.

by nether 13y ago

cpncrunch 13y ago

Incorrect: depression is not defined as "sadness without cause". Most definitions say that stressful life events are a common trigger for depression. [edited] Exhaustion from stressful life events can result is extreme, suicidal depression that definitely qualifies as "mental illness" - not just a few "negative feelings".

chrismonsanto 13y ago
> I also think you need to engage your brain before spouting BS about something you apparently don't know anything about. There is really no reason to be so hostile. Perhaps to show respect to the issue under discussion (depression) we could all resolve to be a little kinder to those we speak with.
- cpncrunch 13y ago
  nether was basically saying "you didn't have depression, just a little sadness". This was very rude and ignorant in my opinion.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - cpncrunch 13y ago
      edited
dhughes 13y ago
You didn't seem to grasp what nether wrote. Contrasting normal everyday sadness versus clinical depression, requiring medication, is accurate.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  But nether said that depression is "sadness without cause" which appears to be incorrect. At least, according to this page from the NIH: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtml http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/depression/index.shtml I don't see anything there that indicates that sadness must be "without cause" to constitute depression. Contrasting normal everyday sadness versus clinical depression, requiring medication, is accurate. True. But we should be careful when making that distinction, whether for ourselves or others, as the line isn't necessarily cut and dried. I think just dismissing someone's report of being "depressed" as "that's just normal sadness" is a very dangerous mindset. If someone's sad enough to choose the label "depressed" for themselves, that alone probably suggests that it's a matter to be taken seriously.
- cpncrunch 13y ago
  First of all, I don't think Brad had "everyday sadness". Secondly, he may have required medication.
- RougeFemme 13y ago
  Medication ??and/or psychological therapy??

hyperventilator 13y ago

That's the thing about depression, when you are sad for no apparent reason it is absolutely maddening. Then when something bad does happen you almost feel better because now you have a legitimate reason for the way you are feeling. It is a very bad feedback loop.

ealloc 13y ago

Depression is not "sadness without cause". It is a mental condition thought by some to be best described as a chemical imbalance in the brain, and often does have a very clear cause. Head injuries, drugs, and other physical injuries and stresses commonly cause depression, even if the person was otherwise emotionally well. "More than half of all people who suffer a traumatic brain injury will become depressed in the year after the injury". In this case, he mentions a debilitating 50 mile run, a bike accident, and an operation, which very well could be the main causes rather than any job or emotional stress.

mindcrime 13y ago

We need to distinguish between negative feelings that are a part of mental illness, versus those warranted by an unhappy life. That's absolutely true, but I think it's dangerous to dismiss someone's description of being depressed. At the end of the day, probably nobody (or a small handful of people) on HN are actually qualified to offer a proper diagnosis. So the rest of us can speculate all we want, but for someone who is depressed, to be perceived as making light of their situation, or dismissing it, might actually lead them to an even worse place. Of course, I have no idea if Brad Feld reads HN or not, so maybe it's a moot point in this specific case. But still, I would encourage trying to have a great deal of empathy for people who refer to themselves as "depressed".

benched 13y ago

This view, this dichotomy, is popular, insidious, infuriating to me as a sufferer, and very overgeneralized as far as I can tell. I guarantee you I have suffered very 'real' depression, even been diagnosed several times if you're into that, and it just so happens that I have always been able to articulate the causes. There may be people who are not able to articulate causes at a given time, for whatever reason - but even that does not mean causes aren't there. The way I see it is this. Life as a biological organism is a two-way interaction between your biological systems, and the putative 'outside world'. And most of what you experience as your life occurs within your brain. There is lots of feedback between your brain and the outside world, notably between your brain and the brains of others. And there is lots of feedback within your own brain, with itself. This is all true for every person, whether or not you happen to have had a run-in with the first-world, western mental health system, and received a 'diagnosis' based on someone's observation of a small part of your process that is deemed dysfunctional. What we call depression is extremely common, but we don't like it and we wish we didn't have to experience it, so we call it an illness. But it is a very common reaction to certain types of adversity: abuse, failures, disappointments, dissolution of important relationships. Such patterns are well-known even to clinicians. The view of depression as just a 'disease' that afflicts the brain for no reason... I can't imagine where this originated. I've experienced deep depression, numerous times, and I've known people who did as well. I could tell you all the reasons. Maybe they make happy people uncomfortable. I know that when I've been happy, it has been tempting to believe that I earned it, chose it, made it for myself - something self-empowering. The reasons for depression usually boil down to prolonged alienation and frustration. Being in a place in life that is maladaptive, and not being able to find a way out in a short amount of time. Not being able to find a job, not being able to make friends or find love, or being in a relationship that is very unhappy and not being able to get out. Being in some life situation that can't be willed out of, like having a felony record, or an incurable disease. Not having completed enough education. Having low self-esteem or perceiving oneself to be a failure, for subjective but still real reasons like being ugly, overweight, or socially awkward. I feel like one of the causes of the persistent misunderstanding of this condition is that most people seem to want to believe happy people are in control of their happiness (whether that means being in control of their external conditions, or control of their attitude), and also want to excuse depressed people from having to be in control of their depression. This is partly sensible, and perhaps rightly motivated, because happiness is characterized by feeling in sufficient control of ones state of being, and depression is a state of prolonged lack of control. But this does not in any way suggest that the depression was random. Look behind that defeated, disconnected state of mind, turn back the clock, and you will find events that led the person into that horrible state.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

vacri 13y ago

The phrase you're looking for is "clinical depression". 'unhappy life' is still depression.