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Regulation is about control, which is what Germany is now trying to do with Bitcoin. I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the

by ferdo 13y ago

Regulation is about control, which is what Germany is now trying to do with Bitcoin. I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the long run.

JonFish85 13y ago
"I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the long run." How do you figure? Germany, like any other developed country, can simply go to the delta: merchants who want to stay in business. Want your business license? Better comply with currency laws.
- VMG 13y ago
  Then can regulate some of the end points, but they can't control the transactions themselves.
- ferdo 13y ago
  The argument could be made that this move by Germany is actually a ploy to make Bitcoin look like a paperwork/legal nightmare and time-moneysuck so that merchants will stay away from it. Bitcoin is too useful to be squashed by mere government regulation. If a few more countries employ these draconian measures, some cash-starved government will welcome Bitcoin in the future. If regulators ("the body of Leviathan and the head of a social worker", to lift from Joseph Stromberg) were smart, they'd advocate easy exchange rules and impose a small tax on each transaction on the exchange. Over the course of generations, I tend to have more faith in markets than in governments. That's why I think regulators will fail in their efforts in the long run.
  - JonFish85 13y ago
    Is it also a ploy to keep people away from credit cards? Cash? Gift cards? It's an interesting novelty for now, with almost no legal strings attached. It's almost like paying for things with rubber bands--cool and interesting at first. But as soon as it's trying to play with the big boys (credit cards, gift cards, et. al), its use has to follow the rules, and suddenly it isn't so novel after all. That'd be my prediction.
    - ferdo 13y ago
      I see the opposite. Regulations will create an even larger undermarket for Bitcoin than exists now. In the next decade, use of Bitcoin (or something similar) will have grown enough outside of regulation that the next generation of Bitcoin users won't even pay attention to the regulators anymore.
venomsnake 13y ago
No one controls bitcoins. They control the EUR/Btc conversion. If you have all the BTC in the world but cannot buy food with them - because depending on where are in EU selling in other currency may be illegal. So the state has a lot of tools.
- ferdo 13y ago
  > No one controls bitcoins. That really annoys regulatory mindsets.
iSnow 13y ago
After we had to bail out the banksters, there is not much love in Germany for unregulated financial entities, either established or with an unproven exchange medium. Bafin does not seem to care if you use btc to trade with your friends, but once € are involved they make the rules. Don't know if that angers you, but I think they have a case.

by ferdo 13y ago

Regulation is about control, which is what Germany is now trying to do with Bitcoin. I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the long run.

JonFish85 13y ago

"I suspect the regulators will fail with regard to control of Bitcoin in the long run." How do you figure? Germany, like any other developed country, can simply go to the delta: merchants who want to stay in business. Want your business license? Better comply with currency laws.

VMG 13y ago
Then can regulate some of the end points, but they can't control the transactions themselves.
ferdo 13y ago
The argument could be made that this move by Germany is actually a ploy to make Bitcoin look like a paperwork/legal nightmare and time-moneysuck so that merchants will stay away from it. Bitcoin is too useful to be squashed by mere government regulation. If a few more countries employ these draconian measures, some cash-starved government will welcome Bitcoin in the future. If regulators ("the body of Leviathan and the head of a social worker", to lift from Joseph Stromberg) were smart, they'd advocate easy exchange rules and impose a small tax on each transaction on the exchange. Over the course of generations, I tend to have more faith in markets than in governments. That's why I think regulators will fail in their efforts in the long run.
- JonFish85 13y ago
  Is it also a ploy to keep people away from credit cards? Cash? Gift cards? It's an interesting novelty for now, with almost no legal strings attached. It's almost like paying for things with rubber bands--cool and interesting at first. But as soon as it's trying to play with the big boys (credit cards, gift cards, et. al), its use has to follow the rules, and suddenly it isn't so novel after all. That'd be my prediction.
  - ferdo 13y ago
    I see the opposite. Regulations will create an even larger undermarket for Bitcoin than exists now. In the next decade, use of Bitcoin (or something similar) will have grown enough outside of regulation that the next generation of Bitcoin users won't even pay attention to the regulators anymore.

venomsnake 13y ago

No one controls bitcoins. They control the EUR/Btc conversion. If you have all the BTC in the world but cannot buy food with them - because depending on where are in EU selling in other currency may be illegal. So the state has a lot of tools.

ferdo 13y ago
> No one controls bitcoins. That really annoys regulatory mindsets.

iSnow 13y ago

After we had to bail out the banksters, there is not much love in Germany for unregulated financial entities, either established or with an unproven exchange medium. Bafin does not seem to care if you use btc to trade with your friends, but once € are involved they make the rules. Don't know if that angers you, but I think they have a case.