4 ms·

For me the end of Google Reader meant that I could finally stop using my Google account altogether since Reader was their only service I was using. It's a shame

by skrause 13y ago

For me the end of Google Reader meant that I could finally stop using my Google account altogether since Reader was their only service I was using. It's a shame that so many of the Google Reader alternatives want me to sign in with my Google account again. In that case I simply won't use them (I'm looking at you, Feedly).

kazagistar 13y ago
Well, if you find it worthwhile, feel free to submit a merge request that adds the authentication method of your choice, right?
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  This attitude is what's wrong with the open source software. It is important to him, but not that important to spend time getting to know code base in a language he might not be familiar with in order to implement it himself. Or he just might not be a programmer. If you want actual users for your project, not developers, than either implement what they ask for or say you don't want to. If enough people complain, it is a good sign that you are missing important features that prevent adoption. Build it yourself is not an answer to those users, and is just plain annoying. If you want to be able to answer with "send me a pull request" then just stop creating end users software, and build some library instead that is used by developers.
  - kbenson 13y ago
    I'm in no way sure who you replied to was the owner, so your entitlement rage may have been aimed incorrectly. That said, maybe the software isn't targeted at you? One of the beautiful things about open source is that contributors get to contribute on their own terms. Unlike many commercial products where targeting anyone and everyone willing to purchase it is the goal, having a completely free product allows the author to do away with all of that if they desire. This isn't the market you are used to. You, as an end user may have very little power. I understand that the complete change of being catered to by commercial products and then ignored in an open source product can be frustrating. Just keep in mind, that frustration is built by your own misunderstanding of your place in the open source ecosystem. The sooner you accept your place, or change it, the better.
    - levosmetalo 13y ago
      As a "potential" end user you have a complete right to complain about the missing feature, as much annoying it can be for the developer of the open source thing. The developer has the same right to just answer "send me the patch". In the end of the day, patch won't be sent, and feature will still be missing. Other users might also miss that feature, and not become users. If that's fine to the project authors, it's also fine for me. Just wanted to say, maybe not that clearly, that "send me the patch" is perfectly appropriate answer to developer, and not a good answer to the end user. And you can't just assume that everyone complaining about the feature is the developer.
      - kbenson 13y ago
        That's a good attitude to have. I just wanted to point out that open source projects don't have to follow the normal market economics of regular, for sale software, so the developer/user relationship can be very, very different. There seems to be friction when the users don't notice this, and think they are still being courted as possible sales.
    - GhotiFish 13y ago
      Entitlement? That's abusing the term. Users are within their right to ask for features, and within their rights to throw their hands up in the air and say "WTF" when a dev turns around and snaps "Well make it yourself" After all, go read never said "The is MY rss reader" it's tagline is "this is an rss reader." rss readers normally don't require single sign on.
      - kbenson 13y ago
        The GP was extending a specific instance to open source projects as a whole, and making a statement about common problems with them. My comment was in response to that. Narrowing my argument to a single specific case is unconstructive. I have no interest in speaking for the author of this software. They should be capable of doing that themselves.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
  - xxdesmus 13y ago
    This seems to be what's wrong with the consumer culture when it comes to open source software. It is a sense of entitlement. If you want a feature, request it. The correct reply from the developer should be "thanks for the feedback, it's been noted, in the mean time you could add it yourself and send me a pull request". Done and done. It's not up to the developer to implement everyone's request. That has nothing to do with "end user software" if so far you are the only one requesting it. If there's no community demand for a feature, feel free to do it yourself. Don't blame the developer for not implementing your feature if 1) there's no community demand outside of yourself and 2) you have no plans to make it happen yourself.
    - nonchalance 13y ago
      What would be interesting is if issue trackers allowed users to pay actual money for features. Many times I find myself saying "I care strongly enough about ____ that I'm willing to pay ____ but it's not worth my time to read the codebase of ____ and fix it myself"
      - TheCraiggers 13y ago
        It's been done a few times. Bounty Source is probably one of the more successful ones that comes to mind.
      - SEJeff 13y ago
        https://www.gittip.com https://www.gittip.com This is sort of their M.O.
- AndrewDucker 13y ago
  How hard can it be to add Persona?
  - pekk 13y ago
    That depends, do you want a site which can be used without Javascript?
    - tracker1 13y ago
      In this case, you really couldn't use the site/application without JS anyway.
mjibson 13y ago
I have the exact opposite reaction: a site that allows me to use my google account and not create another one will get me to sign up more readily. Adding persona support is being considered.
- tracker1 13y ago
  I have to agree, so long as the permissions are limited... I don't like what a lot of sites/apps ask as default permissions... they tend to seriously overreach... as long as it's essentially for authentication, and maybe my verified email address, I'm okay with that.
ForFreedom 13y ago
What do you use as email?
- andrewaylett 13y ago
  Not the OP, but I self-host. I do have a Google account, I don't like using it for SSO. I don't use many Google properties nowadays -- Maps seems to be the biggie.

by skrause 13y ago

kazagistar 13y ago

Well, if you find it worthwhile, feel free to submit a merge request that adds the authentication method of your choice, right?

levosmetalo 13y ago
This attitude is what's wrong with the open source software. It is important to him, but not that important to spend time getting to know code base in a language he might not be familiar with in order to implement it himself. Or he just might not be a programmer. If you want actual users for your project, not developers, than either implement what they ask for or say you don't want to. If enough people complain, it is a good sign that you are missing important features that prevent adoption. Build it yourself is not an answer to those users, and is just plain annoying. If you want to be able to answer with "send me a pull request" then just stop creating end users software, and build some library instead that is used by developers.
- kbenson 13y ago
  I'm in no way sure who you replied to was the owner, so your entitlement rage may have been aimed incorrectly. That said, maybe the software isn't targeted at you? One of the beautiful things about open source is that contributors get to contribute on their own terms. Unlike many commercial products where targeting anyone and everyone willing to purchase it is the goal, having a completely free product allows the author to do away with all of that if they desire. This isn't the market you are used to. You, as an end user may have very little power. I understand that the complete change of being catered to by commercial products and then ignored in an open source product can be frustrating. Just keep in mind, that frustration is built by your own misunderstanding of your place in the open source ecosystem. The sooner you accept your place, or change it, the better.
  - levosmetalo 13y ago
    As a "potential" end user you have a complete right to complain about the missing feature, as much annoying it can be for the developer of the open source thing. The developer has the same right to just answer "send me the patch". In the end of the day, patch won't be sent, and feature will still be missing. Other users might also miss that feature, and not become users. If that's fine to the project authors, it's also fine for me. Just wanted to say, maybe not that clearly, that "send me the patch" is perfectly appropriate answer to developer, and not a good answer to the end user. And you can't just assume that everyone complaining about the feature is the developer.
    - kbenson 13y ago
      That's a good attitude to have. I just wanted to point out that open source projects don't have to follow the normal market economics of regular, for sale software, so the developer/user relationship can be very, very different. There seems to be friction when the users don't notice this, and think they are still being courted as possible sales.
  - GhotiFish 13y ago
    Entitlement? That's abusing the term. Users are within their right to ask for features, and within their rights to throw their hands up in the air and say "WTF" when a dev turns around and snaps "Well make it yourself" After all, go read never said "The is MY rss reader" it's tagline is "this is an rss reader." rss readers normally don't require single sign on.
    - kbenson 13y ago
      The GP was extending a specific instance to open source projects as a whole, and making a statement about common problems with them. My comment was in response to that. Narrowing my argument to a single specific case is unconstructive. I have no interest in speaking for the author of this software. They should be capable of doing that themselves.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
- xxdesmus 13y ago
  This seems to be what's wrong with the consumer culture when it comes to open source software. It is a sense of entitlement. If you want a feature, request it. The correct reply from the developer should be "thanks for the feedback, it's been noted, in the mean time you could add it yourself and send me a pull request". Done and done. It's not up to the developer to implement everyone's request. That has nothing to do with "end user software" if so far you are the only one requesting it. If there's no community demand for a feature, feel free to do it yourself. Don't blame the developer for not implementing your feature if 1) there's no community demand outside of yourself and 2) you have no plans to make it happen yourself.
  - nonchalance 13y ago
    What would be interesting is if issue trackers allowed users to pay actual money for features. Many times I find myself saying "I care strongly enough about ____ that I'm willing to pay ____ but it's not worth my time to read the codebase of ____ and fix it myself"
    - TheCraiggers 13y ago
      It's been done a few times. Bounty Source is probably one of the more successful ones that comes to mind.
    - SEJeff 13y ago
      https://www.gittip.com https://www.gittip.com This is sort of their M.O.
AndrewDucker 13y ago
How hard can it be to add Persona?
- pekk 13y ago
  That depends, do you want a site which can be used without Javascript?
  - tracker1 13y ago
    In this case, you really couldn't use the site/application without JS anyway.

mjibson 13y ago

I have the exact opposite reaction: a site that allows me to use my google account and not create another one will get me to sign up more readily. Adding persona support is being considered.

tracker1 13y ago
I have to agree, so long as the permissions are limited... I don't like what a lot of sites/apps ask as default permissions... they tend to seriously overreach... as long as it's essentially for authentication, and maybe my verified email address, I'm okay with that.

ForFreedom 13y ago

What do you use as email?

andrewaylett 13y ago
Not the OP, but I self-host. I do have a Google account, I don't like using it for SSO. I don't use many Google properties nowadays -- Maps seems to be the biggie.