3 ms·

But why? All that does is handicap the people who don't speak more than 2 dialects, even though they may be more productive in terms of work than the people who

by devcpp 13y ago

But why? All that does is handicap the people who don't speak more than 2 dialects, even though they may be more productive in terms of work than the people who speak 22 dialects. At age 21, I have already immigrated twice to countries with different languages, and I have always considered language as the major barrier in everything I always did (because past a certain age, no matter how hard I try, I keep the accent). I dream of a world where language is a concern of the past. It just makes no sense to keep this hindrance around when there are important things to do.

primelens 13y ago
What's the problem with keeping the accent? Why do you think an accent hinders you? And which language and universal accent should the world switch to?
- devcpp 13y ago
  >What's the problem with keeping the accent? Why do you think an accent hinders you? In my experience, it does, in most social contexts, and also in job interviews, as some interviewers don't feel it would be as easy for me to integrate to the rest of the team, which is true to some extent. These may all be exceptions but it's a big indicator in my opinion. >And which language and universal accent should the world switch to? I think any language known to me would do. When the time comes and people feel ready to accept the idea of one language (looking at the replies I got, it's not gonna happen), we'll discuss it.
saraid216 13y ago
Language is important to people who aren't you. Your notions of what is and isn't important are personal, not universal, and you really don't have the right to dictate to people that they're no longer allowed to speak a certain language simply because it's not the one you picked. That's presuming that the very notion of a one world language would even work, considering all we know about linguistic mutations. What you want is akin to, "Why are we wasting all this time fighting cancer when we could be achieving spaceflight?" Maybe, just maybe, it's people that are important?
- skinnymuch 13y ago
  I don't understand how the analogy is related? Yours is cruel beyond people's feelings.
- devcpp 13y ago
  No need to be arrogant, I never indicated that I thought my opinions were universal. Indeed, I only talked about myself in that comment, precisely to avoid peppering it with IMHOs. I never said I was going to dictate anything onto anyone, it's an opinion, and yours is acknowldged. 7 billion+ to go. >That's presuming that the very notion of a one world language would even work, considering all we know about linguistic mutations. The US have had immigrants from all other the world a few centuries ago and I have never seen any problems directly related to education with 2-3 generations descendants, so I think it was a safe assumption. It can be discussed. >What you want is akin to, "Why are we wasting all this time fighting cancer when we could be achieving spaceflight?" Not really. IMO, it is actually much more akin to an engineer proposing that we set a standard so we could stop focusing on component integration so much, and actually get to work. I think many engineers prefer standards to having a large variety of systems that achieve the same things, so I see no reason why that wouldn't apply to languages.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    > I never indicated that I thought my opinions were universal. This wasn't the problem. The problem was that your opinion was to have a universal language. This is textbook imperialism. This is why English has such major influences from French and Latin when it's essentially a Germanic language. Because a couple of empires invaded England and imposed their language. > The US have had immigrants from all other the world a few centuries ago and I have never seen any problems directly related to education with 2-3 generations descendants, so I think it was a safe assumption. It can be discussed. The US prints out reams of extra paperwork precisely so that it can be offered in multiple languages. The US fought and continues to fight proxy wars dealing with how these immigrants are integrated into the culture. New York City used to be a battleground between the Italians and the Irish. Read just about any significant span of American history and you'll find a disagreement between two different sets of immigrants. Don't need no West Side Story to explain it. Of course, at the same time, the US invented the network standard dialect of English while making fun of Californian versus Midwestern versus New England versus Southern accents. Odd... those are also some of the clearest political battlefield lines historically. And it's the US who is internationally laughed at for having the least informed and most cross-culturally inept population in the world. Furthermore, do you really want the US to be the de jure overlord of the entire world? Because I don't. And lastly, linguistic mutation. Even if you buy into the Chomskyian notion of a universal grammar inherent in the biological human brain, you still have the fact that language evolves differently for different groups of people and there isn't any way to reliably intermingle them on a regular basis unless you use top-down imposition. > IMO, it is actually much more akin to an engineer proposing that we set a standard so we could stop focusing on component integration so much, and actually get to work. I think many engineers prefer standards to having a large variety of systems that achieve the same things, so I see no reason why that wouldn't apply to languages. So, basically, you want to do this: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/ Protip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Esperanto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Esperanto

by devcpp 13y ago

primelens 13y ago

What's the problem with keeping the accent? Why do you think an accent hinders you? And which language and universal accent should the world switch to?

devcpp 13y ago
>What's the problem with keeping the accent? Why do you think an accent hinders you? In my experience, it does, in most social contexts, and also in job interviews, as some interviewers don't feel it would be as easy for me to integrate to the rest of the team, which is true to some extent. These may all be exceptions but it's a big indicator in my opinion. >And which language and universal accent should the world switch to? I think any language known to me would do. When the time comes and people feel ready to accept the idea of one language (looking at the replies I got, it's not gonna happen), we'll discuss it.

saraid216 13y ago

Language is important to people who aren't you. Your notions of what is and isn't important are personal, not universal, and you really don't have the right to dictate to people that they're no longer allowed to speak a certain language simply because it's not the one you picked. That's presuming that the very notion of a one world language would even work, considering all we know about linguistic mutations. What you want is akin to, "Why are we wasting all this time fighting cancer when we could be achieving spaceflight?" Maybe, just maybe, it's people that are important?

skinnymuch 13y ago
I don't understand how the analogy is related? Yours is cruel beyond people's feelings.
devcpp 13y ago
No need to be arrogant, I never indicated that I thought my opinions were universal. Indeed, I only talked about myself in that comment, precisely to avoid peppering it with IMHOs. I never said I was going to dictate anything onto anyone, it's an opinion, and yours is acknowldged. 7 billion+ to go. >That's presuming that the very notion of a one world language would even work, considering all we know about linguistic mutations. The US have had immigrants from all other the world a few centuries ago and I have never seen any problems directly related to education with 2-3 generations descendants, so I think it was a safe assumption. It can be discussed. >What you want is akin to, "Why are we wasting all this time fighting cancer when we could be achieving spaceflight?" Not really. IMO, it is actually much more akin to an engineer proposing that we set a standard so we could stop focusing on component integration so much, and actually get to work. I think many engineers prefer standards to having a large variety of systems that achieve the same things, so I see no reason why that wouldn't apply to languages.
- saraid216 13y ago
  > I never indicated that I thought my opinions were universal. This wasn't the problem. The problem was that your opinion was to have a universal language. This is textbook imperialism. This is why English has such major influences from French and Latin when it's essentially a Germanic language. Because a couple of empires invaded England and imposed their language. > The US have had immigrants from all other the world a few centuries ago and I have never seen any problems directly related to education with 2-3 generations descendants, so I think it was a safe assumption. It can be discussed. The US prints out reams of extra paperwork precisely so that it can be offered in multiple languages. The US fought and continues to fight proxy wars dealing with how these immigrants are integrated into the culture. New York City used to be a battleground between the Italians and the Irish. Read just about any significant span of American history and you'll find a disagreement between two different sets of immigrants. Don't need no West Side Story to explain it. Of course, at the same time, the US invented the network standard dialect of English while making fun of Californian versus Midwestern versus New England versus Southern accents. Odd... those are also some of the clearest political battlefield lines historically. And it's the US who is internationally laughed at for having the least informed and most cross-culturally inept population in the world. Furthermore, do you really want the US to be the de jure overlord of the entire world? Because I don't. And lastly, linguistic mutation. Even if you buy into the Chomskyian notion of a universal grammar inherent in the biological human brain, you still have the fact that language evolves differently for different groups of people and there isn't any way to reliably intermingle them on a regular basis unless you use top-down imposition. > IMO, it is actually much more akin to an engineer proposing that we set a standard so we could stop focusing on component integration so much, and actually get to work. I think many engineers prefer standards to having a large variety of systems that achieve the same things, so I see no reason why that wouldn't apply to languages. So, basically, you want to do this: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/ Protip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Esperanto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Esperanto