4 ms·
The mere fact that it's becoming possible to make comparisons between a Western government and a criminal organisation, even if it's just to get a message acros
by octagonal 13y ago
The mere fact that it's becoming possible to make comparisons between a Western government and a criminal organisation, even if it's just to get a message across, is worse enough on its own.
- davidw 13y agoPeople have always made comparisons. The mere fact that they're making them does not necessarily have any bearing on reality.
- rolux 13y agoWhile obviously, mafias and governments work on the same problem: How to govern, how to stay in power. Of course, a government has the power to brand a mafia as a criminal organization, but the line between legal and criminal can be very blurry, and often quite arbitrary. If you just go, historically, by the score of committed crimes, then whatever metric you choose, governments and their agencies will beat criminal organizations by a huge margin.
- davidw 13y ago> While obviously, mafias and governments work on the same problem Bullshit. You'd do well to read more about the Mafia and how it affects places where it's strong. They are badly governed, and generally not good places to live or do business as an honest person. Denmark has a strong government that is quite involved in its citizens lives, but the number of them that end up dead, tortured, with their lives ruined, and so on is minimal compared to people in Sicily, Calabria, Campania, or other areas in southern Italy dominated by Mafias. And the standard of living is far higher. People are happier; with the possible exception of the climate, which is not really something either Mafias or anyone else can change on a local level unless you read some of the wackier subreddits. Mafias are nothing like western democracies. If you're going to compare them with governments, compare them with feudal, tribal systems where family and personal loyalty is everything, and the rule of law counts for nothing. To equate even something so abhorrent as fascist Italy to the Mafia is to have a gross and severe misunderstanding of history. They are both bad, but very different. The Mafia is a real thing here in Italy, not just some abstract talking point for your libertarian ranting.
- rolux 13y agoTrust me, I know such places, and I have no romantic notion of the Mafia. But I think there's a way to compare things that doesn't equate them. Same for the Greenwald quote in the grand-grand-grand-...-parent.
- davidw 13y agoThe quote only serves to show that the person in question knows little to nothing about actual mafias. Or - more likely - was understandably caught up in the heat of the moment and didn't research what he was writing. He's wrong, but I'd certainly cut him some slack.
- MichaelSalib 13y agoWith respect, you might want to familiarize yourself with some significant papers from the political science literature, starting with http://static.ow.ly/docs/0%20Tilly%2085_5Xr.pdf http://static.ow.ly/docs/0%20Tilly%2085_5Xr.pdf
- davidw 13y agoAccess denied. Do you have another link?
- harshreality 13y agohttp://static.ow.ly/docs/0%20Tilly%2085_5Xr.pdf http://static.ow.ly/docs/0%20Tilly%2085_5Xr.pdf
- MichaelSalib 13y agoSorry, I don't offhand but you can probably find one by just searching for "War Making and State Making as Organized Crime" by Charles Tilly.
- kaonashi 13y agoThat's more a testament to Western propaganda than the historical restraint shown by Western governments.