4 ms·

I don't think the ability to dispense fear and intimidation around the world at will is a show of fear. Our biggest hope is this becomes a national issue for t

by mythz 13y ago

I don't think the ability to dispense fear and intimidation around the world at will is a show of fear. Our biggest hope is this becomes a national issue for the next election so we at least have the opportunity to elect the leader who respects our constitutional rights the most.

noonespecial 13y ago
And which one will that be? The "democrat" or the "republican"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTJ0qYR6YFo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTJ0qYR6YFo
- nthj 13y ago
  The primaries.
- mythz 13y ago
  Not clear yet, if its a national issue each side can make their position known and back it up with planned reforms. The one thing that is clear is that we shouldn't expect change under an Obama administration.
  - straight_talk_2 13y ago
    Are you really that naive as to expect change under the next democrat|republican administrations?
    - mythz 13y ago
      You've confused hope with naivety, where there is none. Election time is the best time for reform, i.e. where the democratic process has the most influence.
      - ams6110 13y ago
        And this time around, let's hope we are a bit more curious about the "change" we are voting for.
        straight_talk_2 13y ago
        Voting for a very small set of preselected candidates, endorsed by either wing of the elite party and mass media has zero chance of changing anything.
      - jacquesm 13y ago
        Wasn't Obama the 'hope' candidate? I agree that hope is better than despair but hope seems to be a bit of a tarnished word after the last 4+ years.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    As I've said before, you won't see any review of this until after troops are fully withdrawn from Afghanistan, at which point a review of the AUMF and Patriot act become far more likely.
- ams6110 13y ago
  I think that a candidate who was not afraid to make the "security state" a campaign issue, and the massive government encroachment in so many other aspects of our lives, and was able to explain the issues and his or her positions without sounding like he was regurgitating focus-group tested talking points, would do quite well in the current climate. Or it may be that the average person still doesn't care. People who really don't care don't vote though, so all you really have to do is reach the people who are in any way paying attention.
  - shawn-furyan 13y ago
    So voting for a politician that takes advantage of a strategic opening by promising things he/she likely has no intention whatsoever of following through on is going to fix the police state? I mean, the administration's positions throughout this entire NSA scandal have been diametrically opposed to promises and assurances that Obama made while campaigning. Until you solve the problem of politician trustworthiness, then you have no hope of fixing systemic problems stemming from lack of trustworthiness among government officials. And make no mistake, you have to trust a politician that promises in his campaign to limit his own power.
    - chill1 13y ago
      Perhaps structural changes in the way politicians are elected and retain office would have some positive long term effects. I imagine if it was possible to hold a direct-vote referendum on the current sitting president mid-term would hold their feet to the fire at least a little bit. Also, prohibiting advertising by political campaigns (TV, print, all of it) coupled with state-sponsored, mandetory debates between presidential candidates might force a real debate about real issues. And assuming we agreed that those changes would be beneficial to the political system, how might we go about achieving those reforms?
      - shawn-furyan 13y ago
        Well, that's the big question isn't it? Perhaps Larry Lessig will make end roads on the campaign finance issue, though I'm not holding my breath. The thing is that basically these sort of structural reforms will be difficult to institute without a broad movement that replaces scads of incumbents with independents unified on these issues. The current campaign finance rules heavily favor incumbents (aka current legislators), and so narrow, lukewarm political sentiment will yield nothing but lip service. I mean, it's hard to get incumbents to put that ladder back down after they've intentionally pulled it up behind them. It's a difficult problem, and I'm pessimistic on the prospect of it being solved when so few people seem to have the attention span to even see the problem. It's much easier to get outraged at narrow concrete issues than weightier abstract issues like campaign finance.
rmc 13y ago
Huh? The UK doesn't have a constitution. Or are you talking about the European Convention of Human Rights.
oscargrouch 13y ago
we are in a serious democracy crisys right now all over the world, because the politics doesnt represent us anymore.. not now.. and dont thinks things changes that much only by "voting the other guy". if people dont really pressure for a immediate change in laws, its a illusion that by exchanging parties in power they will change their behavior.. they had made us believe there were only 3 powers in democracy.. but the truth is there are only 1 real power.. and thats the one that comes from the people.. the other 3 ones, are just institutionalized.. its in times like these, people must show this power in action in a way that make the institutions fear the people power.. they made it in the french revolution, they made it in the arab spring.. they are making it here in brazil.. in brazil now they are just listening, and doing what they are told to.. dont know what will become of all of this.. but it is working.. people must stand.. its the only way against distopic and schizophrenic governments

by mythz 13y ago

noonespecial 13y ago

And which one will that be? The "democrat" or the "republican"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTJ0qYR6YFo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTJ0qYR6YFo

nthj 13y ago
The primaries.
mythz 13y ago
Not clear yet, if its a national issue each side can make their position known and back it up with planned reforms. The one thing that is clear is that we shouldn't expect change under an Obama administration.
- straight_talk_2 13y ago
  Are you really that naive as to expect change under the next democrat|republican administrations?
  - mythz 13y ago
    You've confused hope with naivety, where there is none. Election time is the best time for reform, i.e. where the democratic process has the most influence.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      And this time around, let's hope we are a bit more curious about the "change" we are voting for.
      - straight_talk_2 13y ago
        Voting for a very small set of preselected candidates, endorsed by either wing of the elite party and mass media has zero chance of changing anything.
    - jacquesm 13y ago
      Wasn't Obama the 'hope' candidate? I agree that hope is better than despair but hope seems to be a bit of a tarnished word after the last 4+ years.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  As I've said before, you won't see any review of this until after troops are fully withdrawn from Afghanistan, at which point a review of the AUMF and Patriot act become far more likely.
ams6110 13y ago
I think that a candidate who was not afraid to make the "security state" a campaign issue, and the massive government encroachment in so many other aspects of our lives, and was able to explain the issues and his or her positions without sounding like he was regurgitating focus-group tested talking points, would do quite well in the current climate. Or it may be that the average person still doesn't care. People who really don't care don't vote though, so all you really have to do is reach the people who are in any way paying attention.
- shawn-furyan 13y ago
  So voting for a politician that takes advantage of a strategic opening by promising things he/she likely has no intention whatsoever of following through on is going to fix the police state? I mean, the administration's positions throughout this entire NSA scandal have been diametrically opposed to promises and assurances that Obama made while campaigning. Until you solve the problem of politician trustworthiness, then you have no hope of fixing systemic problems stemming from lack of trustworthiness among government officials. And make no mistake, you have to trust a politician that promises in his campaign to limit his own power.
  - chill1 13y ago
    Perhaps structural changes in the way politicians are elected and retain office would have some positive long term effects. I imagine if it was possible to hold a direct-vote referendum on the current sitting president mid-term would hold their feet to the fire at least a little bit. Also, prohibiting advertising by political campaigns (TV, print, all of it) coupled with state-sponsored, mandetory debates between presidential candidates might force a real debate about real issues. And assuming we agreed that those changes would be beneficial to the political system, how might we go about achieving those reforms?
    - shawn-furyan 13y ago
      Well, that's the big question isn't it? Perhaps Larry Lessig will make end roads on the campaign finance issue, though I'm not holding my breath. The thing is that basically these sort of structural reforms will be difficult to institute without a broad movement that replaces scads of incumbents with independents unified on these issues. The current campaign finance rules heavily favor incumbents (aka current legislators), and so narrow, lukewarm political sentiment will yield nothing but lip service. I mean, it's hard to get incumbents to put that ladder back down after they've intentionally pulled it up behind them. It's a difficult problem, and I'm pessimistic on the prospect of it being solved when so few people seem to have the attention span to even see the problem. It's much easier to get outraged at narrow concrete issues than weightier abstract issues like campaign finance.

rmc 13y ago

Huh? The UK doesn't have a constitution. Or are you talking about the European Convention of Human Rights.

oscargrouch 13y ago

we are in a serious democracy crisys right now all over the world, because the politics doesnt represent us anymore.. not now.. and dont thinks things changes that much only by "voting the other guy". if people dont really pressure for a immediate change in laws, its a illusion that by exchanging parties in power they will change their behavior.. they had made us believe there were only 3 powers in democracy.. but the truth is there are only 1 real power.. and thats the one that comes from the people.. the other 3 ones, are just institutionalized.. its in times like these, people must show this power in action in a way that make the institutions fear the people power.. they made it in the french revolution, they made it in the arab spring.. they are making it here in brazil.. in brazil now they are just listening, and doing what they are told to.. dont know what will become of all of this.. but it is working.. people must stand.. its the only way against distopic and schizophrenic governments