5 ms·
Quote: "Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they feel threatened by."
by rolux 13y ago
Quote:
"Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they feel threatened by."
- ams6110 13y agoCome again? I thought threatening one's family was #1 in the mafia playbook.
- jlgreco 13y agoObviously that depends on the mafia, and the era. Hard to make broad statements about "the" mafia.
- davidw 13y agoThe Sicilian Mafia are pretty vile human beings, by and large. Compare and contrast "detained 9 hours", which is a big violation of civil liberties on behalf of a government, with "dissolved an innocent child in acid", which is just sickening and inhuman. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omicidio_di_Giuseppe_Di_Matteo http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omicidio_di_Giuseppe_Di_Matteo Not to say at all that what the government did in this case was "not so bad", just that there is worse out there.
- octagonal 13y agoThe mere fact that it's becoming possible to make comparisons between a Western government and a criminal organisation, even if it's just to get a message across, is worse enough on its own.
- davidw 13y agoPeople have always made comparisons. The mere fact that they're making them does not necessarily have any bearing on reality.
- rolux 13y agoWhile obviously, mafias and governments work on the same problem: How to govern, how to stay in power. Of course, a government has the power to brand a mafia as a criminal organization, but the line between legal and criminal can be very blurry, and often quite arbitrary. If you just go, historically, by the score of committed crimes, then whatever metric you choose, governments and their agencies will beat criminal organizations by a huge margin.
- davidw 13y ago> While obviously, mafias and governments work on the same problem Bullshit. You'd do well to read more about the Mafia and how it affects places where it's strong. They are badly governed, and generally not good places to live or do business as an honest person. Denmark has a strong government that is quite involved in its citizens lives, but the number of them that end up dead, tortured, with their lives ruined, and so on is minimal compared to people in Sicily, Calabria, Campania, or other areas in southern Italy dominated by Mafias. And the standard of living is far higher. People are happier; with the possible exception of the climate, which is not really something either Mafias or anyone else can change on a local level unless you read some of the wackier subreddits. Mafias are nothing like western democracies. If you're going to compare them with governments, compare them with feudal, tribal systems where family and personal loyalty is everything, and the rule of law counts for nothing. To equate even something so abhorrent as fascist Italy to the Mafia is to have a gross and severe misunderstanding of history. They are both bad, but very different. The Mafia is a real thing here in Italy, not just some abstract talking point for your libertarian ranting.
- kaonashi 13y agoThat's more a testament to Western propaganda than the historical restraint shown by Western governments.
- calibraxis 13y agoOn the US's murderous sanctions against Iraq (and nuking Japan, for that matter): Lesley Stahl: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Madeleine Albright: "We think the price is worth it." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq#Albright_interview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq#Albright...) Dissidents (those who Greenwald praises) point out that international politics runs on the mafia model. (Keeping in mind that the mafia is small and nation-states are large. https://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/11/03-2 https://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/11/03-2)
- davidw 13y agoInane comments like this are one of the many reasons why political discussions on HN are so bad. The thinking that most politicians are just like people who would take a 12 year old boy and dump him in a vat of acid after strangling him is shallow and devoid of any depth of thinking on how different organizations operate. States do dirty things, and so do individuals, and so do organizations on various levels. But there's a lot of differences in incentives, capabilities, tradeoffs, calculations and so on between them all. If you are really interested in understanding the world, rather than making the point that THE GUBERMENT IS EEEVIL, thinking about some of these differences would behoove you. So: are you genuinely so poorly informed that you see no difference, or are you completely blinded by your libertarian propaganda as to not see any difference? I live in Italy, and like many people, I intensely dislike Berlusconi. But, you know what? I'd prefer him 10 times - 100 times - to the sort of people who run actual Mafias.
- marshray 13y agoThe very phrase "#N in the [official] playbook" suggests the existence of a structure of governing rules.
- anigbrowl 13y agoThis sort of thing is why I have a hard time taking Glenn Greenwald at face value. He's a well-educated person who clearly knows that such statements are nonsense.