4 ms·

I disagree. You cannot simply buy the RPi at a normal retailer, unlike (smart)phones, laptops, (smart)TVs etc. etc. This does not mean the RPi isn't a fantasti

by rmk2 13y ago

I disagree. You cannot simply buy the RPi at a normal retailer, unlike (smart)phones, laptops, (smart)TVs etc. etc. This does not mean the RPi isn't a fantastic little machine or that it doesn't offer new possibilities. However, there is a world of difference between a developer board (that doesn't have a case, operating system, built-in storage etc.) and a ready-made consumer article. General purpose computers become rarer with an increase in phones and tablets, all of them locked down. This is the making of a niché, and I think it is dishonest to simply assume people are worried about losing their status. Is the reduction in sales of general purpose computers the end of the world? Perhaps not. Should it prompt closer scrutiny and some concern? I think it should.

superuser2 13y ago
If you try to buy an iPad at the Apple Store, the Specialist you buy it from will ask you about your intended usage and make it very clear that it's not a general purpose computer, and that you probably need a computer if you don't already have one.
pdonis 13y ago
General purpose computers become rarer with an increase in phones and tablets, all of them locked down. But the reason this happens is that most people, even when the computer they owned really was a general-purpose computer, didn't use it as one. Anyone reading or commenting on HN is an outlier; we actually need a general-purpose computer, because we need to be able to do things with it that its designers and builders never thought of. But most people don't. Most people want a small and pretty much stable selection of apps, and if those apps are there, they don't care whether or not the device they're running on could also run an infinite number of other apps.
- kintamanimatt 13y ago
  One side effect of this might possibly be an increased cost for traditional form factors as demand for laptops and desktops from home users declines.
- Tycho 13y ago
  And also because general purpose computers tend to become unusable after a few years, because people don't know how to uninstall all the crapware that made its way onto their device and chokes up system resources.
- rmk2 13y ago
  This works until one of that "stable selection of apps" tells the user that the version of their OS is not supported anymore, and that they would have to update. If the device is locked, your update paths are limited. Just because not everyone uses all functionality doesn't mean I have to condone removing that functionality entirely. And it does not mean that it might not burn a user at some point in the future. As an anecdote: we have an iPhone 3G in our household, a phone that became progressively worse with certain updates after the release of both the 3GS and 4, to the point that it is nearly unusable for surfing now. This leaves me with exactly two options: stop using it as it was meant to be used, or buy a new phone. And for the other camp: in order to get an inofficial version of Android that is newer than Gingerbread on my phone, I would have to reformat its internal storage, which I can only do since it is unlocked by now. However, even that is not entirely without risk, and it is not supported.
  - pdonis 13y ago
    This works until one of that "stable selection of apps" tells the user that the version of their OS is not supported anymore, and that they would have to update. Oh, I entirely agree; I've been bitten by this myself (and on desktops/laptops, not on mobile devices), and it's one of the main reasons I don't have an iDevice and don't use many apps on my Android tablet. I'm just saying that you and I are outliers; most users appear not to care that their device is locked down and they will sooner or later be forced to upgrade. (Many of them are used to upgrading every time their phone carrier comes out with a shiny new toy anyway.)
Aqueous 13y ago
Android phones are not locked down, at least not nearly to the same degree as iOS devices. I can pretty much do anything I want with my phone. As long as i can still buy a general-purpose computer for $200 that can do/run anything I want, or pay for processor cycles like a utility like I can with AWS, this will seem like computing purist's paranoia. It's a lot like Stallman's regular speechifying, when it strikes me that while he's not completely wrong, he's not really right either.
- noir_lord 13y ago
  > I can pretty much do anything I want with my phone. The use of the word pretty contradicts your assertion that they are not locked down.
  - Aqueous 13y ago
    Ok, by default I can do pretty much everything I want, and with a little work I can do everything I want.
- rmk2 13y ago
  I don't know about you, but I had to void my warranty in order to be able to use adblocking, proxy servers and run a ssh server on my phone. I would hardly call that "not locked down".
desas 13y ago
On the UK high street you can buy an rpi + case + cables + card all in one box.

by rmk2 13y ago

superuser2 13y ago

If you try to buy an iPad at the Apple Store, the Specialist you buy it from will ask you about your intended usage and make it very clear that it's not a general purpose computer, and that you probably need a computer if you don't already have one.

pdonis 13y ago

General purpose computers become rarer with an increase in phones and tablets, all of them locked down. But the reason this happens is that most people, even when the computer they owned really was a general-purpose computer, didn't use it as one. Anyone reading or commenting on HN is an outlier; we actually need a general-purpose computer, because we need to be able to do things with it that its designers and builders never thought of. But most people don't. Most people want a small and pretty much stable selection of apps, and if those apps are there, they don't care whether or not the device they're running on could also run an infinite number of other apps.

kintamanimatt 13y ago
One side effect of this might possibly be an increased cost for traditional form factors as demand for laptops and desktops from home users declines.
Tycho 13y ago
And also because general purpose computers tend to become unusable after a few years, because people don't know how to uninstall all the crapware that made its way onto their device and chokes up system resources.
rmk2 13y ago
This works until one of that "stable selection of apps" tells the user that the version of their OS is not supported anymore, and that they would have to update. If the device is locked, your update paths are limited. Just because not everyone uses all functionality doesn't mean I have to condone removing that functionality entirely. And it does not mean that it might not burn a user at some point in the future. As an anecdote: we have an iPhone 3G in our household, a phone that became progressively worse with certain updates after the release of both the 3GS and 4, to the point that it is nearly unusable for surfing now. This leaves me with exactly two options: stop using it as it was meant to be used, or buy a new phone. And for the other camp: in order to get an inofficial version of Android that is newer than Gingerbread on my phone, I would have to reformat its internal storage, which I can only do since it is unlocked by now. However, even that is not entirely without risk, and it is not supported.
- pdonis 13y ago
  This works until one of that "stable selection of apps" tells the user that the version of their OS is not supported anymore, and that they would have to update. Oh, I entirely agree; I've been bitten by this myself (and on desktops/laptops, not on mobile devices), and it's one of the main reasons I don't have an iDevice and don't use many apps on my Android tablet. I'm just saying that you and I are outliers; most users appear not to care that their device is locked down and they will sooner or later be forced to upgrade. (Many of them are used to upgrading every time their phone carrier comes out with a shiny new toy anyway.)

Aqueous 13y ago

Android phones are not locked down, at least not nearly to the same degree as iOS devices. I can pretty much do anything I want with my phone. As long as i can still buy a general-purpose computer for $200 that can do/run anything I want, or pay for processor cycles like a utility like I can with AWS, this will seem like computing purist's paranoia. It's a lot like Stallman's regular speechifying, when it strikes me that while he's not completely wrong, he's not really right either.

noir_lord 13y ago
> I can pretty much do anything I want with my phone. The use of the word pretty contradicts your assertion that they are not locked down.
- Aqueous 13y ago
  Ok, by default I can do pretty much everything I want, and with a little work I can do everything I want.
rmk2 13y ago
I don't know about you, but I had to void my warranty in order to be able to use adblocking, proxy servers and run a ssh server on my phone. I would hardly call that "not locked down".

desas 13y ago

On the UK high street you can buy an rpi + case + cables + card all in one box.