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I'm not at all opposed to basic income on moral grounds (it's actually a nice idea from that point of view), but I don't think it's sustainable economically, be

I'm not at all opposed to basic income on moral grounds (it's actually a nice idea from that point of view), but I don't think it's sustainable economically, because it creates a positive feedback cycle. Here's why: let's say you compute an amount $X of income everyone gets. This means that everyone now has enough money for food, rent and other basic necessities. That means that the demand for these goods will increase (maybe not much in the US, but significantly in other parts of the world). That means that the prices for those goods will increase (unless production increases somehow, but why would it?). To adjust for this, the government would have to increase the income; then the prices would increase again and so on. Basically you'd have rampant inflation. Now the counterargument is going to be that this wouldn't happen, because production would increase up to a point where everyone's needs are met, and prices stabilize. However, production still depends on labor. What incentives would people have to put in more work to produce more?

venomsnake 13y ago
Actually you are infusing the economy with much needed demand and liquidity this way. And inflation. It is mostly a number game - you have to keep the basic income: 1. Fair - everybody gets the same sum no matter of employment status. 2. Really basic - it should be enough for food and utility bills but not rent. Employment is complex topic. I go crazy if I stay without work for more than a few weeks. People like to work - case in point - almost every person has hobby that he is very passionate about. They don't like being forced into it.
- rjsw 13y ago
  I wouldn't consider it basic income if it didn't include rent (or healthcare).
moocowduckquack 13y ago
"unless production increases somehow, but why would it?" Personally, I think that one of the best things you could do to increase production is to ensure that people are not living hand to mouth. The personal strategies of the desperate are not conducive to a working economy. "What incentives would people have to put in more work to produce more?" Boredom and curiousity. That's all you ever need. Hunger only inspires people to get fed. Satiation inspires them to design new houses.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
scotty79 13y ago
> What incentives would people have to put in more work to produce more? To have more than other people. You don't need to threaten people with hunger and kicking them out on the streets. Just allow them to show off and they'll compete for bigger telly and nicer car/scooter/bicycle.
- ahomescu1 13y ago
  That might work. I'd like to see how it goes in practice. Whenever I hear of basic income, it always takes me back to communism. The main difference is that communism wouldn't let you have more than others (people found ways around that anyway).

venomsnake 13y ago

Actually you are infusing the economy with much needed demand and liquidity this way. And inflation. It is mostly a number game - you have to keep the basic income: 1. Fair - everybody gets the same sum no matter of employment status. 2. Really basic - it should be enough for food and utility bills but not rent. Employment is complex topic. I go crazy if I stay without work for more than a few weeks. People like to work - case in point - almost every person has hobby that he is very passionate about. They don't like being forced into it.

rjsw 13y ago
I wouldn't consider it basic income if it didn't include rent (or healthcare).

moocowduckquack 13y ago

"unless production increases somehow, but why would it?" Personally, I think that one of the best things you could do to increase production is to ensure that people are not living hand to mouth. The personal strategies of the desperate are not conducive to a working economy. "What incentives would people have to put in more work to produce more?" Boredom and curiousity. That's all you ever need. Hunger only inspires people to get fed. Satiation inspires them to design new houses.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

scotty79 13y ago

> What incentives would people have to put in more work to produce more? To have more than other people. You don't need to threaten people with hunger and kicking them out on the streets. Just allow them to show off and they'll compete for bigger telly and nicer car/scooter/bicycle.

ahomescu1 13y ago
That might work. I'd like to see how it goes in practice. Whenever I hear of basic income, it always takes me back to communism. The main difference is that communism wouldn't let you have more than others (people found ways around that anyway).