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>So they are damned either way. Damned? The best possible thing that could happen for the NSA as well as everyone else who is affected, would be for the NSA to

>So they are damned either way. Damned? The best possible thing that could happen for the NSA as well as everyone else who is affected, would be for the NSA to be pared back to its only legitimate function, military intelligence. Other good things that should come out of this are: Strong gov't whistleblower protections, so that future potential leakers will not need to flee. A real threat of whistleblowers may tend to moderate illegal activities conducted in secret. Abuses may still occur, but they should be fewer, and more likely to be reported if whistleblowers had security. International treaties to protect the security of political dissidents, including securing the freedom to travel. Real, credible oversight. Relying on Congress didn't work. Relying on the Judicial didn't work. Relying on the press didn't work. We need something better.

smokeyj 13y ago
> The best possible thing that could happen NSA to be pared back to its only legitimate function, military intelligence. When describing the functions of government, legitimacy is irrelevant. Besides being immeasurable, it's typically defined by those with authority. > would be for the NSA to be pared back to its only legitimate function, military intelligence. Have you considered spying on Americans is military intelligence? Have you considered the military may see the public as a threat to national security that may have to be neutralized at a given moments notice? Surely defending our country from anarchy is a legitimate function of the military?
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >When describing the functions of government, legitimacy is irrelevant. Besides being immeasurable, it's typically defined by those with authority. Fair enough. I hope it is obvious that it was me asserting my opinion. >Have you considered spying on Americans is military intelligence? Yes I have. It is a thorny issue. I can even name good reasons that Congress, high ranking gov't officials should be spied upon. I'm not sure those good reasons supersede the potentially disastrous consequences though. Without a doubt though, ubiquitous spying is not compatible with the stated principles of our gov't. >Have you considered the military may see the public as a threat to national security that may have to be neutralized at a given moments notice? Yes. There are probably high ranking military officers who believe that moment is now. >Surely defending our country from anarchy is a legitimate function of the military? It is most certainly not, at least not without specific constraints.

smokeyj 13y ago

> The best possible thing that could happen NSA to be pared back to its only legitimate function, military intelligence. When describing the functions of government, legitimacy is irrelevant. Besides being immeasurable, it's typically defined by those with authority. > would be for the NSA to be pared back to its only legitimate function, military intelligence. Have you considered spying on Americans is military intelligence? Have you considered the military may see the public as a threat to national security that may have to be neutralized at a given moments notice? Surely defending our country from anarchy is a legitimate function of the military?

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
>When describing the functions of government, legitimacy is irrelevant. Besides being immeasurable, it's typically defined by those with authority. Fair enough. I hope it is obvious that it was me asserting my opinion. >Have you considered spying on Americans is military intelligence? Yes I have. It is a thorny issue. I can even name good reasons that Congress, high ranking gov't officials should be spied upon. I'm not sure those good reasons supersede the potentially disastrous consequences though. Without a doubt though, ubiquitous spying is not compatible with the stated principles of our gov't. >Have you considered the military may see the public as a threat to national security that may have to be neutralized at a given moments notice? Yes. There are probably high ranking military officers who believe that moment is now. >Surely defending our country from anarchy is a legitimate function of the military? It is most certainly not, at least not without specific constraints.