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The lesson of 9/11 is: The terrorists won. The NSA et al. was way more effective at spreading terror than those terrorists ever were. And it probably cost more

The lesson of 9/11 is: The terrorists won. The NSA et al. was way more effective at spreading terror than those terrorists ever were. And it probably cost more money (and lives?), too.

001sky 13y ago
Its not clear that they have "won", in an endgame sense. But if the NSA has commandeered the internet ("for security")... The logical conclusion points to (/seems to be) the course of history is nearing at an inflection point.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >Its not clear that they have "won", in an endgame sense. We'll see after the next election. If a whole bunch of incumbent security hawks and war hawks aren't unseated by civil libertarians, then we're probably out of chances.
  - mcguire 13y ago
    Please let us know how to identify some civil libertarians. It would help if they aren't also crazy in their own right.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      If I see one, I'll let you know.
  - cpr 13y ago
    Except that elections ultimately don't change the cast of characters that matter, who are either the elites pushing things to their own benefit, or the useful idiots in place as civil servants or military. Elections are all a distraction to keep us from seeing what's permanent about the oligarchy. As Jimmy Carter says (as buffoonish as he might have been), we don't really have a functioning democracy any more in the US.
- agotterer 13y ago
  It's too soon to say game over, but the won the first few rounds. At a high level the terrorist goals are to strike fear in Americans and cause disruption to democracy. Most of the country seems to be okay with the gov abusing our rights and violating the constitution in order to protect against people trying to take it away. We live in a constant state of fear. You hear announcements of random search in the NYC subway, you can't fly without taking your shoes off or having a few ounces of liquid, and you can't go to a ball game without a pat down. Is this not what the terrorists game plan was?

The lesson of 9/11 is: The terrorists won. The NSA et al. was way more effective at spreading terror than those terrorists ever were. And it probably cost more money (and lives?), too.

001sky 13y ago

Its not clear that they have "won", in an endgame sense. But if the NSA has commandeered the internet ("for security")... The logical conclusion points to (/seems to be) the course of history is nearing at an inflection point.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
>Its not clear that they have "won", in an endgame sense. We'll see after the next election. If a whole bunch of incumbent security hawks and war hawks aren't unseated by civil libertarians, then we're probably out of chances.
- mcguire 13y ago
  Please let us know how to identify some civil libertarians. It would help if they aren't also crazy in their own right.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    If I see one, I'll let you know.
- cpr 13y ago
  Except that elections ultimately don't change the cast of characters that matter, who are either the elites pushing things to their own benefit, or the useful idiots in place as civil servants or military. Elections are all a distraction to keep us from seeing what's permanent about the oligarchy. As Jimmy Carter says (as buffoonish as he might have been), we don't really have a functioning democracy any more in the US.
agotterer 13y ago
It's too soon to say game over, but the won the first few rounds. At a high level the terrorist goals are to strike fear in Americans and cause disruption to democracy. Most of the country seems to be okay with the gov abusing our rights and violating the constitution in order to protect against people trying to take it away. We live in a constant state of fear. You hear announcements of random search in the NYC subway, you can't fly without taking your shoes off or having a few ounces of liquid, and you can't go to a ball game without a pat down. Is this not what the terrorists game plan was?