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So what are you doing about it? A lot more than someone saying "let's not talk about this", that's for fucking sure. Voting up articles about the issue on a n

So what are you doing about it? A lot more than someone saying "let's not talk about this", that's for fucking sure. Voting up articles about the issue on a niche news site is not "doing something". And answering to your own post isn't really "making a point". Who claimed that's enough? Who claimed it's even a lot? How is it not better than neither doing something, nor talking about the problem?

davidw 13y ago
> A lot more than someone saying "let's not talk about this", that's for fucking sure. jister was obviously being sarcastic. In kind of a facile way, I suppose, but I guess it went completely over people's heads. > How is it not better than neither doing something, nor talking about the problem? Because it apparently lulls some people into thinking they have done something meaningful. Talking about it endlessly here accomplishes two things: jack, and shit.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  >Talking about it endlessly here accomplishes two things: jack, and shit. This is absolutely untrue. The longer it is kept in the public consciousness, outside of a government frame, the better. Talking about it with your grandmother is useful.
  - davidw 13y ago
    > public consciousness HN is not the "public consciousness".
    - ertdfgcb 13y ago
      This is obviously anecdotal, but hopefully it is an example of how discussion here can have a positive influence: Before I started reading about it on HN, my opinion of the NSA scandal wasn't much more complex than "it's bad". Sure I had some reasons (right to privacy, violation of the constitution, etc), but my thinking was basically "I already knew government is a bunch of dicks, and there was that AT&T thing a while back, so this isn't even anything new, it'll probably just blow over in a couple of days". Obviously, it didn't, and as I kept reading the discussions, I found myself caring about this thing more and more - I never really talked about the news with my friends, but the discussion on HN gave me a reason to; before, if I talked about the news with them, it was a one time thing - none of us read more than the article, so we only had our own insights to discuss. But the discussion on HN gave me (and them) a much broader view. It hadn't even occurred to me that this could be used by terrorists against us - until I read a comment here. As for real action, I have written my congressfolks about this, and I know 2 other people who have done the same because of discussions we had. Again, this is anecdotal, I (and/or my friends) might be a exception, but I hope you can understand that even though HN is obviously not the "public consciousness", discussion here can influence people who would never have otherwise cared. (Of course if you were just diffusing the "We're such a important and powerful part of the world" type of attitude that seems prevalent on reddit and seems to be implied by pessimizer's comment, go for it)
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Because it apparently lulls some people into thinking they have done something meaningful. And this is worse than not even wanting to do something meaningful, or anything at all? Nonense. Talking about it endlessly here accomplishes two things: jack, and shit. Talking about it "endlessly" is just another strawman, right now we're talking about discussing it at all, vs. discussing it not at all, because realizing in what belly people live is not interesting enough for some.pond. If talk achieved nothing, corrupt authority throughout history including today, wouldn't be so fucking terrified of it, they would dare to shut up for a second, and let the "narrative" unfold itself, instead of being dictated. The emperor is naked, and collectively realizing that is not only half the battle, it's 90%. Unless you're suggesting to go off and just assassinate people, which would backfire, I don't see what one could do without talking about it: Before anything can be done, people need to be aware, and once they're aware, what will be done will also depend on them.

davidw 13y ago

> A lot more than someone saying "let's not talk about this", that's for fucking sure. jister was obviously being sarcastic. In kind of a facile way, I suppose, but I guess it went completely over people's heads. > How is it not better than neither doing something, nor talking about the problem? Because it apparently lulls some people into thinking they have done something meaningful. Talking about it endlessly here accomplishes two things: jack, and shit.

pessimizer 13y ago
>Talking about it endlessly here accomplishes two things: jack, and shit. This is absolutely untrue. The longer it is kept in the public consciousness, outside of a government frame, the better. Talking about it with your grandmother is useful.
- davidw 13y ago
  > public consciousness HN is not the "public consciousness".
  - ertdfgcb 13y ago
    This is obviously anecdotal, but hopefully it is an example of how discussion here can have a positive influence: Before I started reading about it on HN, my opinion of the NSA scandal wasn't much more complex than "it's bad". Sure I had some reasons (right to privacy, violation of the constitution, etc), but my thinking was basically "I already knew government is a bunch of dicks, and there was that AT&T thing a while back, so this isn't even anything new, it'll probably just blow over in a couple of days". Obviously, it didn't, and as I kept reading the discussions, I found myself caring about this thing more and more - I never really talked about the news with my friends, but the discussion on HN gave me a reason to; before, if I talked about the news with them, it was a one time thing - none of us read more than the article, so we only had our own insights to discuss. But the discussion on HN gave me (and them) a much broader view. It hadn't even occurred to me that this could be used by terrorists against us - until I read a comment here. As for real action, I have written my congressfolks about this, and I know 2 other people who have done the same because of discussions we had. Again, this is anecdotal, I (and/or my friends) might be a exception, but I hope you can understand that even though HN is obviously not the "public consciousness", discussion here can influence people who would never have otherwise cared. (Of course if you were just diffusing the "We're such a important and powerful part of the world" type of attitude that seems prevalent on reddit and seems to be implied by pessimizer's comment, go for it)
PavlovsCat 13y ago
Because it apparently lulls some people into thinking they have done something meaningful. And this is worse than not even wanting to do something meaningful, or anything at all? Nonense. Talking about it endlessly here accomplishes two things: jack, and shit. Talking about it "endlessly" is just another strawman, right now we're talking about discussing it at all, vs. discussing it not at all, because realizing in what belly people live is not interesting enough for some.pond. If talk achieved nothing, corrupt authority throughout history including today, wouldn't be so fucking terrified of it, they would dare to shut up for a second, and let the "narrative" unfold itself, instead of being dictated. The emperor is naked, and collectively realizing that is not only half the battle, it's 90%. Unless you're suggesting to go off and just assassinate people, which would backfire, I don't see what one could do without talking about it: Before anything can be done, people need to be aware, and once they're aware, what will be done will also depend on them.