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Also, keep in mind that money is not wealth. This "global elite" is not hoarding food, fuel or other basic necessities, they only have the money. New money can

Also, keep in mind that money is not wealth. This "global elite" is not hoarding food, fuel or other basic necessities, they only have the money. New money can be printed, old money can be destroyed, new currencies can be created. The only real wealth is goods and services created/rendered by working people, and this "global elite" doesn't really have a strong grip on that.

scotty79 13y ago
Yes. Money is just a way of figuring out how much of the economical output of the whole system each money holder can use. By hoarding money rich don't do much harm. But because they have so much money they can hoard resources. And they do to earn more like so: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/goldman-sachss-aluminum-pile.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/goldman-sachss-alu... They also hoard food: http://www.dw.de/germanys-dz-bank-ends-food-speculation-trading/a-16839350 http://www.dw.de/germanys-dz-bank-ends-food-speculation-trad... They also can hoard companies. Buy them and harm them. This happens to most acquired startups. The problem is not that they have a lot of money. The problem is what they do with the money. Of course it's not all bad. There are things that rich people made that benefited everybody, but I'm guessing most such things were created on the way to getting rich.
scotty79 13y ago
The other thing rich people hoard is real estate. This increases price of one of most basic necessities. This also degrades the real estate resource because more people have to rent, and people who live in their own house tend to care about its state more than people who rent and people who own house just to rent it away.
- ahomescu1 13y ago
  In principle, I agree. However, since the bubble crashed a few years back, real estate prices have been going down like crazy in many places (both US and Europe), because of the reduced demand.
  - scotty79 13y ago
    Like you said "bubble". So it's not "going down like crazy" it just readjusts to level closer to sane price. And that reduced demand doesn't come from people needing less real estate to live. Just from the fact that real estate reached prices that most people can't afford even if they pay with slaving their whole life for mortgage. Reasonable price for apartment would be what most people could save up during the time they still live with their parents. But since real estate backed credit is legal that's not gonna happen. Such credit allows people to sell their future work in a manner almost perfectly safe for the bank. Thanks to this since you need place to live to have a life it can cost huge part of what you earn in life.
- tomp 13y ago
  This shouldn't be a problem, especially in the US, where there is so much empty space. Maybe more in the tiny Europe, but there is still a lot of empty space here, and a lot of empty houses in remote villages. The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities.
  - scotty79 13y ago
    >This shouldn't be a problem, especially in the US, where there is so much empty space. If you spread population of the world to occupy all the land evenly it would be only 300 feet from each person to its closes neighbors. So it's not that much free space. > The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities. And this makes the problem of price elevation from hoarding real estate even more pronounced.
  - lgieron 13y ago
    FWIW, Europe is larger than the US (10.1m vs 9.2m km^2).
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      Over double the population.
  - rubinelli 13y ago
    > The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities. People will live where they can find jobs, and the very concentration of people brings in even more jobs to cities. As much as some cite the amenities of large cities to stay, a very large portion of the retiring population move away as soon as they don't need to work anymore.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ksrm 13y ago
  A land value tax would go a long way towards fixing this. You could decrease income and sales taxes as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

scotty79 13y ago

Yes. Money is just a way of figuring out how much of the economical output of the whole system each money holder can use. By hoarding money rich don't do much harm. But because they have so much money they can hoard resources. And they do to earn more like so: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/goldman-sachss-aluminum-pile.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/goldman-sachss-alu... They also hoard food: http://www.dw.de/germanys-dz-bank-ends-food-speculation-trading/a-16839350 http://www.dw.de/germanys-dz-bank-ends-food-speculation-trad... They also can hoard companies. Buy them and harm them. This happens to most acquired startups. The problem is not that they have a lot of money. The problem is what they do with the money. Of course it's not all bad. There are things that rich people made that benefited everybody, but I'm guessing most such things were created on the way to getting rich.

scotty79 13y ago

The other thing rich people hoard is real estate. This increases price of one of most basic necessities. This also degrades the real estate resource because more people have to rent, and people who live in their own house tend to care about its state more than people who rent and people who own house just to rent it away.

ahomescu1 13y ago
In principle, I agree. However, since the bubble crashed a few years back, real estate prices have been going down like crazy in many places (both US and Europe), because of the reduced demand.
- scotty79 13y ago
  Like you said "bubble". So it's not "going down like crazy" it just readjusts to level closer to sane price. And that reduced demand doesn't come from people needing less real estate to live. Just from the fact that real estate reached prices that most people can't afford even if they pay with slaving their whole life for mortgage. Reasonable price for apartment would be what most people could save up during the time they still live with their parents. But since real estate backed credit is legal that's not gonna happen. Such credit allows people to sell their future work in a manner almost perfectly safe for the bank. Thanks to this since you need place to live to have a life it can cost huge part of what you earn in life.
tomp 13y ago
This shouldn't be a problem, especially in the US, where there is so much empty space. Maybe more in the tiny Europe, but there is still a lot of empty space here, and a lot of empty houses in remote villages. The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities.
- scotty79 13y ago
  >This shouldn't be a problem, especially in the US, where there is so much empty space. If you spread population of the world to occupy all the land evenly it would be only 300 feet from each person to its closes neighbors. So it's not that much free space. > The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities. And this makes the problem of price elevation from hoarding real estate even more pronounced.
- lgieron 13y ago
  FWIW, Europe is larger than the US (10.1m vs 9.2m km^2).
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    Over double the population.
- rubinelli 13y ago
  > The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities. People will live where they can find jobs, and the very concentration of people brings in even more jobs to cities. As much as some cite the amenities of large cities to stay, a very large portion of the retiring population move away as soon as they don't need to work anymore.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ksrm 13y ago
A land value tax would go a long way towards fixing this. You could decrease income and sales taxes as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax