7 ms·

No. It is $3323. 1oz gold coin price in USD: 1969 40 2013 1362

by pdx6 13y ago

ojbyrne 13y ago
Last I checked, gold makes a poor meal.
JoeCortopassi 13y ago
You are taking the value of a tangible asset from 1969 and comparing it to todays value of said tangible asset. This in no way illustrates the inflation rate. All it shows (assuming your numbers are right) is the increase in the perceived value of gold in that time frame. The original comment's $650 number is close enough to be considered accurate
- baddox 13y ago
  What's the distinction between "perceived value" and just normal value?
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Maybe poor choice in words, but the point is no one asset can be counted on to directly monitor inflation. Using the gold example- suppose industrial demand for gold to fuel the semiconductor industry tripled the price of gold compared to 1969. Now suppose the price of milk, bread, gasoline, electricity, water, clothing, and alcohol only doubled in price compared to 1969. If inflation is a measure of your purchasing power IN GENERAL (not your purchasing power of gold), inflation was roughly 200%, no? If gold had absolutely no practical value by itself, it would be free of market demands like that in my example. But of course then its value would have no connection to purchasing power, and we're right back where we started.
    - rphlx 13y ago
      If you use Milton Friedman's (IMO, most-correct) definition of inflation as 'expansion of the currency supply' then Gold has actually tracked USD inflation extremely well, and the rate is far higher than the CPI.
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    Little but that's sort of a distraction to the main point of the discussion. Using gold is no more helpful than say using the price of a barrel of crude oil then and now.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      Interestingly, using crude oil gets you about the same results as gold. The figures above show a 34x nominal increase in the price of gold, while crude oil over the same period went up 32x.
- asn0 13y ago
  Dictionary says "Inflation: a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money." A lot of other tangible assets were dramatically cheaper in 1969.
- tnuc 13y ago
  Umm.. No. An ounce of gold is traditionally viewed as a months wages. And it hasn't changed much but there are some fluctuations. Interest rates and inflation are artificial constructs that are fiddled with to screw you out of your money.
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    I wasn't alive back then, but I think most full-time workers in USA made more than $40/month in 1969.
    - asmithmd1 13y ago
      In 1969 my father supported 2 kids and a wife that did not work, owned a house and ONE car on $100 a week. I think $100 a week in 1969 is roughly equal to $125k per year.
    - JosephHatfield 13y ago
      According to the U.S. Census, the average household monthly income in 1969 was about $700 a month.
steve-howard 13y ago
Why is the price of gold more relevant than the Consumer Price Index?
- dnautics 13y ago
  both are terrible measures, as a long-term measure gold isn't so bad, but for point-to-point comparisons (as is done in the parent post), gold goes through some crazy speculative bubbles. The CPI is dastardly manipulated figures. (hedonic adjustments, substitutions)
  - tanzam75 13y ago
    > The CPI is dastardly manipulated figures. (hedonic adjustments, substitutions) That's not manipulation. That's just trying to calculate an accurate number. If you do no substitutions, then you will end up being a Collectible Goods Index, rather than a Consumer Goods Index. It makes no sense to calculate inflation in 2013 based on a basket of goods from 1919. But that creates another problem. If you do no hedonic adjustments, then you will overstate inflation if consumers move upmarket. It's not the prices that went up -- it's consumer purchasing habits.
    - dnautics 13y ago
      I'm not suggesting there is a good way to measure inflation. But there is no objective way to make these adjustments. To suggest that the official adjustments are better for some reason is just a stealthy appeal to authority.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    We all know that the Big Mac Index is the proper way to measure differences in money value. Assuming the Big Mac was still 45 cents in 1969 (as it was when it was introduced in 1967), and using The Economist's average US price of $4.56 for 2013, we get a roughly 10x increase, so it's worth about $1,000 today. That's substantially different from the CPI-based value. I wasn't quite expecting that.
arbuge 13y ago
$640 is correct. The price of gold (or artwork, or diamonds, or oil, or whatever other single item you may choose) is not an accurate proxy for the cost of living. Stated differently: there is more to life than buying gold.
consz 13y ago
Incorrect, it is worth approx $0. Data General NOVA: 1969 $8000 2013 ~$0 $100 * ($0 / $8000) = $0
- mikeash 13y ago
  Nah, it's really worth $110,150, since you could have held on to the $100 for two years, then bought into Intel's IPO which would result in 5,000 shares held today due to subsequent splits, which are currently going for $22.03 each. I first tried this exercise with oil instead of gold, but the price change over the period in question is nearly identical. I doubt it means anything, but I thought it was interesting.
  - wintersFright 13y ago
    Here is a crazy theory: Say you have a really big oil field. Really really big. Unimaginally huge wealth flows in every day because the world wants, nay needs this modern lifeblood. How do you store that wealth. Do you stack IOU's from those countries in the form of currency? Nah. They will just inflate the currency to pay you back after they burn up all that precious oil? How about you just meter out enough oil to meet your life needs? Nah, they'll call your country a terrorist axis of evil and invade to help the oil flow. ok how about this. How about you do a deal and pump as much oil as possible as long as you can exchange it for something real. and you have a long time cultural affilation for a yellow shiny metal. yeah that will do. How about we do a deal. We keep the oil pumping as long as we can exchange a ratio of oil barrels for this shiny metal. When the oil runs out in a hundred years or so we will have a stack of shiny metal to trade back. More reading at this blog: http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2009/08/call-of-century.html http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2009/08/call-of-century.html
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dualogy 13y ago
The gold "price" prior to 1971 was a pegging set by central banks, only adjusted slightly every couple of years. A "free price-fluctuating world market for gold" as we today know it only exists since the 70s. (Some argue we're still under central bank-managed price pegging, just "smarter" but let's not go there...) Rendering your point pretty useless.

No. It is $3323. 1oz gold coin price in USD: 1969 40 2013 1362

by pdx6 13y ago

No. It is $3323. 1oz gold coin price in USD: 1969 40 2013 1362

ojbyrne 13y ago

Last I checked, gold makes a poor meal.

JoeCortopassi 13y ago

You are taking the value of a tangible asset from 1969 and comparing it to todays value of said tangible asset. This in no way illustrates the inflation rate. All it shows (assuming your numbers are right) is the increase in the perceived value of gold in that time frame. The original comment's $650 number is close enough to be considered accurate

baddox 13y ago
What's the distinction between "perceived value" and just normal value?
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Maybe poor choice in words, but the point is no one asset can be counted on to directly monitor inflation. Using the gold example- suppose industrial demand for gold to fuel the semiconductor industry tripled the price of gold compared to 1969. Now suppose the price of milk, bread, gasoline, electricity, water, clothing, and alcohol only doubled in price compared to 1969. If inflation is a measure of your purchasing power IN GENERAL (not your purchasing power of gold), inflation was roughly 200%, no? If gold had absolutely no practical value by itself, it would be free of market demands like that in my example. But of course then its value would have no connection to purchasing power, and we're right back where we started.
  - rphlx 13y ago
    If you use Milton Friedman's (IMO, most-correct) definition of inflation as 'expansion of the currency supply' then Gold has actually tracked USD inflation extremely well, and the rate is far higher than the CPI.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  Little but that's sort of a distraction to the main point of the discussion. Using gold is no more helpful than say using the price of a barrel of crude oil then and now.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Interestingly, using crude oil gets you about the same results as gold. The figures above show a 34x nominal increase in the price of gold, while crude oil over the same period went up 32x.
asn0 13y ago
Dictionary says "Inflation: a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money." A lot of other tangible assets were dramatically cheaper in 1969.
tnuc 13y ago
Umm.. No. An ounce of gold is traditionally viewed as a months wages. And it hasn't changed much but there are some fluctuations. Interest rates and inflation are artificial constructs that are fiddled with to screw you out of your money.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  I wasn't alive back then, but I think most full-time workers in USA made more than $40/month in 1969.
  - asmithmd1 13y ago
    In 1969 my father supported 2 kids and a wife that did not work, owned a house and ONE car on $100 a week. I think $100 a week in 1969 is roughly equal to $125k per year.
  - JosephHatfield 13y ago
    According to the U.S. Census, the average household monthly income in 1969 was about $700 a month.

steve-howard 13y ago

Why is the price of gold more relevant than the Consumer Price Index?

dnautics 13y ago
both are terrible measures, as a long-term measure gold isn't so bad, but for point-to-point comparisons (as is done in the parent post), gold goes through some crazy speculative bubbles. The CPI is dastardly manipulated figures. (hedonic adjustments, substitutions)
- tanzam75 13y ago
  > The CPI is dastardly manipulated figures. (hedonic adjustments, substitutions) That's not manipulation. That's just trying to calculate an accurate number. If you do no substitutions, then you will end up being a Collectible Goods Index, rather than a Consumer Goods Index. It makes no sense to calculate inflation in 2013 based on a basket of goods from 1919. But that creates another problem. If you do no hedonic adjustments, then you will overstate inflation if consumers move upmarket. It's not the prices that went up -- it's consumer purchasing habits.
  - dnautics 13y ago
    I'm not suggesting there is a good way to measure inflation. But there is no objective way to make these adjustments. To suggest that the official adjustments are better for some reason is just a stealthy appeal to authority.
- mikeash 13y ago
  We all know that the Big Mac Index is the proper way to measure differences in money value. Assuming the Big Mac was still 45 cents in 1969 (as it was when it was introduced in 1967), and using The Economist's average US price of $4.56 for 2013, we get a roughly 10x increase, so it's worth about $1,000 today. That's substantially different from the CPI-based value. I wasn't quite expecting that.

arbuge 13y ago

$640 is correct. The price of gold (or artwork, or diamonds, or oil, or whatever other single item you may choose) is not an accurate proxy for the cost of living. Stated differently: there is more to life than buying gold.

consz 13y ago

Incorrect, it is worth approx $0. Data General NOVA: 1969 $8000 2013 ~$0 $100 * ($0 / $8000) = $0

mikeash 13y ago
Nah, it's really worth $110,150, since you could have held on to the $100 for two years, then bought into Intel's IPO which would result in 5,000 shares held today due to subsequent splits, which are currently going for $22.03 each. I first tried this exercise with oil instead of gold, but the price change over the period in question is nearly identical. I doubt it means anything, but I thought it was interesting.
- wintersFright 13y ago
  Here is a crazy theory: Say you have a really big oil field. Really really big. Unimaginally huge wealth flows in every day because the world wants, nay needs this modern lifeblood. How do you store that wealth. Do you stack IOU's from those countries in the form of currency? Nah. They will just inflate the currency to pay you back after they burn up all that precious oil? How about you just meter out enough oil to meet your life needs? Nah, they'll call your country a terrorist axis of evil and invade to help the oil flow. ok how about this. How about you do a deal and pump as much oil as possible as long as you can exchange it for something real. and you have a long time cultural affilation for a yellow shiny metal. yeah that will do. How about we do a deal. We keep the oil pumping as long as we can exchange a ratio of oil barrels for this shiny metal. When the oil runs out in a hundred years or so we will have a stack of shiny metal to trade back. More reading at this blog: http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2009/08/call-of-century.html http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2009/08/call-of-century.html

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dualogy 13y ago

The gold "price" prior to 1971 was a pegging set by central banks, only adjusted slightly every couple of years. A "free price-fluctuating world market for gold" as we today know it only exists since the 70s. (Some argue we're still under central bank-managed price pegging, just "smarter" but let's not go there...) Rendering your point pretty useless.