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Really annoying Google blocks IMs from other services now as well. Lots of people complain to me they can't IM Google users any more. Apparently Google removed

by lnanek2 13y ago

Really annoying Google blocks IMs from other services now as well. Lots of people complain to me they can't IM Google users any more. Apparently Google removed server to server XMPP support, a standard open IM protocol, in favor of their own lock in protocols. Other products are following suit, Chromecast doesn't include support DLNA or other standards for example, but tries to force you to use Google proprietary stuff instead. In many cases this is a worse situation for users and only benefits Google by locking more people in and forcing more people to use services that aren't superior. Many people have their own media center or media server setups that are incompatible for example, like XBMC, a popular media center.

jmillikin 13y ago
> Really annoying Google blocks IMs from other services > now as well. Lots of people complain to me they can't IM > Google users any more. Apparently Google removed server > to server XMPP support, a standard open IM protocol, in > favor of their own lock in protocols. Google Talk still works, and still supports server-to-server XMPP federation. Some users have chosen to switch to Hangouts, which is a separate product (affiliated with Google+) that doesn't support federation. > Chromecast doesn't include support DLNA or other > standards for example I'm of mixed opinion on this. On one hand, it's obviously better to use an open standard when available. On the other, DLNA and UPnP and all the other associated standards were terrible. As a user I was never able to get my TV to stream music from my computer, and as a developer I couldn't wade through all the XML and acronyms to get something that worked. Sometimes "open standard" is code for "designd by committee, compliantly implemented by nobody".
- kevingadd 13y ago
  Is 'an Android OTA update replaces Google Talk with Hangouts without advance notice' your definition of 'chosen to switch'?
  - jmillikin 13y ago
    Every other XMPP client seems to have kept working fine.
- maxsilver 13y ago
  > Some users have chosen to switch to Hangouts, which is a separate product. This is only partially true. Many folks had no choice. For example, on Android, anyone who had automatic updates enabled was automatically upgraded to Hangouts. No choice involved, Talk simply worked one day, and was gone the next, replaced with an purposely-incompatible 'Hangouts' app. Additionally, if your device doesn't have the Talk apk already on it, there's no user facing way to get it back. (you can only 'uninstall' Hangouts if it Talk shipped on your device. The 2013 Nexus for example, is blocked from installing Talk from the Play Store, and blocked from uninstalling Hangouts. Users have to either root, or hunt down the APK from random internet sites to get Talk back).
  - jmillikin 13y ago
    > Users have to either root, or hunt down the APK from > random internet sites to get Talk back). Or install a different XMPP client; Xabber ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xabber.android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xabber.and... ) seems to be popular.
drivebyacct2 13y ago
>Chromecast doesn't include support DLNA or other standards for example That's because DLNA is a fucking nightmare and everyone who has ever touched it with a 60 foot pole agrees. Further, they've not released all of the docs, but ChromeCast is a very simple combination of SSDP (a piece of DLNA, in fact) and DIAL. It's trivial to create an app that interacts with the ChromeCast with the same level of functionality as Google's SDK. The CC already supports all of my XBMC remote play scenarios and then some. Every media server software I've ever heard of has already added or is adding ChromeCast support. XBMC isn't incompatible in the least. It's very easy for me to send a url to either my xbmc plugin or to the Chromecast itself. And there are python and Android emulators of Chromecast. Eh. I'll rally with you on XMPP any day, but it sounds like you need to read up more on Chromecast. (would someone un-hell-ban me or un-rate-limit OR un-slow-ban me? Using any of them in combination with a hell-ban is pretty much the dumbest thing I could conceive, but all three together is a real stroke of genius).

by lnanek2 13y ago

jmillikin 13y ago

> Really annoying Google blocks IMs from other services > now as well. Lots of people complain to me they can't IM > Google users any more. Apparently Google removed server > to server XMPP support, a standard open IM protocol, in > favor of their own lock in protocols. Google Talk still works, and still supports server-to-server XMPP federation. Some users have chosen to switch to Hangouts, which is a separate product (affiliated with Google+) that doesn't support federation. > Chromecast doesn't include support DLNA or other > standards for example I'm of mixed opinion on this. On one hand, it's obviously better to use an open standard when available. On the other, DLNA and UPnP and all the other associated standards were terrible. As a user I was never able to get my TV to stream music from my computer, and as a developer I couldn't wade through all the XML and acronyms to get something that worked. Sometimes "open standard" is code for "designd by committee, compliantly implemented by nobody".

kevingadd 13y ago
Is 'an Android OTA update replaces Google Talk with Hangouts without advance notice' your definition of 'chosen to switch'?
- jmillikin 13y ago
  Every other XMPP client seems to have kept working fine.
maxsilver 13y ago
> Some users have chosen to switch to Hangouts, which is a separate product. This is only partially true. Many folks had no choice. For example, on Android, anyone who had automatic updates enabled was automatically upgraded to Hangouts. No choice involved, Talk simply worked one day, and was gone the next, replaced with an purposely-incompatible 'Hangouts' app. Additionally, if your device doesn't have the Talk apk already on it, there's no user facing way to get it back. (you can only 'uninstall' Hangouts if it Talk shipped on your device. The 2013 Nexus for example, is blocked from installing Talk from the Play Store, and blocked from uninstalling Hangouts. Users have to either root, or hunt down the APK from random internet sites to get Talk back).
- jmillikin 13y ago
  > Users have to either root, or hunt down the APK from > random internet sites to get Talk back). Or install a different XMPP client; Xabber ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xabber.android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xabber.and... ) seems to be popular.

drivebyacct2 13y ago

>Chromecast doesn't include support DLNA or other standards for example That's because DLNA is a fucking nightmare and everyone who has ever touched it with a 60 foot pole agrees. Further, they've not released all of the docs, but ChromeCast is a very simple combination of SSDP (a piece of DLNA, in fact) and DIAL. It's trivial to create an app that interacts with the ChromeCast with the same level of functionality as Google's SDK. The CC already supports all of my XBMC remote play scenarios and then some. Every media server software I've ever heard of has already added or is adding ChromeCast support. XBMC isn't incompatible in the least. It's very easy for me to send a url to either my xbmc plugin or to the Chromecast itself. And there are python and Android emulators of Chromecast. Eh. I'll rally with you on XMPP any day, but it sounds like you need to read up more on Chromecast. (would someone un-hell-ban me or un-rate-limit OR un-slow-ban me? Using any of them in combination with a hell-ban is pretty much the dumbest thing I could conceive, but all three together is a real stroke of genius).