4 ms·

Ask HN: Disappointed with the current state of discourse

11 points by kunai 13y ago

Recently, a quite heated (and needed) discussion took place on HN, and, as expected, was voted dead, yet again, by mods. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6216685 The justification for this sort of heavy-handed, draconian, and dictatorial policy is in the interest of keeping the HN community "pure" and avoiding the eternal September that Reddit and Slashdot have faced. However, there comes a point with all leadership, where laserlike focus on absolving a single problem that presents itself regardless of what circumstances exist, and the problem that can be solved without heavy-handed and draconian approaches, yet continues to grow worse. We saw this approach with USG, and I fear it is coming to Hacker News. There needs to be discussion on how to present the best way forward for this community. We can't solve the problem of the eternal September unless we take a holistic approach and think of exactly what we want to accomplish in this community. Abuse of power and micromanagement are the farthest from a panacea I could possibly think of. The community will have its fair share of lunacy, unqualified posters, "me-too"ers, but that's what gives an online community breadth and depth. It gives a community character. The reason I came to HN in the first place was to engage in intensely scholarly discourse, and I have received that. To keep it that way, let's be creative and not unnecessarily rename editorialized titles irrelevantly or hellban users that want discussion about the future of the community.

DanBC 13y ago
You don't know that the mods killed it. Many people on HN hate meta discussion and will flag those threads. Having said that, recreating a meta thread when you've seen another meta-thread recently killed seems foolish at best. Is there a suitable META sub-reddit, where all meta stuff can go? (EG, all the Stack overflow meta stuff that gets closed on SE, or the Wikipedia meta that gets derailed by BaseballBugs, or etc etc?)
- Fuzzwah 13y ago
  It could be that the lack of a meta sub HN is key to the frustration people are feeling. Some brief explanation of the moderation goals would be nice.
ScottWhigham 13y ago
There needs to be discussion on how to present the best way forward for this community. Holy smokes I've never been involved in a community that talks about the need to talk as much as HN. I bet there are ten "Ask HN" posts a week whose main idea is that we should talk about our community and how we need to this or that. The community will have its fair share of lunacy, unqualified posters, "me-too"ers, but that's what gives an online community breadth and depth. It gives a community character. You haven't been here long - less than a year. This community had a character - a great character - for years. It's been in the last 2-3 years that it's lost most of that character. So to have newbies come here and say that we need x or y for "community character" is a bit laughable.
- kunai 13y ago
  Just because I hadn't signed up for an account until this January doesn't mean I haven't been lurking around here since 2009. The reason we need to have this talk is that we've never been given a chance to.
  - ScottWhigham 13y ago
    I don't know how most people feel but my personal thoughts are that, if you are lurker, then you are not 'part of the community'. The reason we need to have this talk is that we've never been given a chance to. I don't even know how to talk intelligently to that statement. Who has stopped "us" from talking about it before? I was here before there were mods and after mods - are you saying that there are mods who hate change and will autokill/hellban anyone who tries to talk about what you are talking about? Or perhaps that pg himself is doing it? Sorry - you've lost me.
SmokyBorbon 13y ago
Slashdot->Digg->Reddit->HN It's the same problem over and over again. Shouldn't we know by now that democracy is a failure? Mobs do not make good decisions especially when they make them anonymously. Limiting the power of the mob (mods, rules, etc.) only delays the inevitable. Until someone comes up with a better model, the cycle will continue.

11 points by kunai 13y ago

DanBC 13y ago

You don't know that the mods killed it. Many people on HN hate meta discussion and will flag those threads. Having said that, recreating a meta thread when you've seen another meta-thread recently killed seems foolish at best. Is there a suitable META sub-reddit, where all meta stuff can go? (EG, all the Stack overflow meta stuff that gets closed on SE, or the Wikipedia meta that gets derailed by BaseballBugs, or etc etc?)

Fuzzwah 13y ago
It could be that the lack of a meta sub HN is key to the frustration people are feeling. Some brief explanation of the moderation goals would be nice.

ScottWhigham 13y ago

There needs to be discussion on how to present the best way forward for this community. Holy smokes I've never been involved in a community that talks about the need to talk as much as HN. I bet there are ten "Ask HN" posts a week whose main idea is that we should talk about our community and how we need to this or that. The community will have its fair share of lunacy, unqualified posters, "me-too"ers, but that's what gives an online community breadth and depth. It gives a community character. You haven't been here long - less than a year. This community had a character - a great character - for years. It's been in the last 2-3 years that it's lost most of that character. So to have newbies come here and say that we need x or y for "community character" is a bit laughable.

kunai 13y ago
Just because I hadn't signed up for an account until this January doesn't mean I haven't been lurking around here since 2009. The reason we need to have this talk is that we've never been given a chance to.
- ScottWhigham 13y ago
  I don't know how most people feel but my personal thoughts are that, if you are lurker, then you are not 'part of the community'. The reason we need to have this talk is that we've never been given a chance to. I don't even know how to talk intelligently to that statement. Who has stopped "us" from talking about it before? I was here before there were mods and after mods - are you saying that there are mods who hate change and will autokill/hellban anyone who tries to talk about what you are talking about? Or perhaps that pg himself is doing it? Sorry - you've lost me.

SmokyBorbon 13y ago

Slashdot->Digg->Reddit->HN It's the same problem over and over again. Shouldn't we know by now that democracy is a failure? Mobs do not make good decisions especially when they make them anonymously. Limiting the power of the mob (mods, rules, etc.) only delays the inevitable. Until someone comes up with a better model, the cycle will continue.