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Actually HN itself is experiencing some 'unbundling', I believe. Boot-strappers, for example, have long been carving out their own communities away from HN. I c

Actually HN itself is experiencing some 'unbundling', I believe. Boot-strappers, for example, have long been carving out their own communities away from HN. I can only imagine this is also true for valley startups.. There's no way HN is still the center of this world for long. Its where you invited all your friends and co-workers to, and now its a mess. Now you have to move upmarket to find better information, and getting into those other communities is harder. They don't just let anyone in. They watched what happened to HN and they're scared of killing quality. If you want into those communities, you better have created something, and you better be willing to contribute in a positive way. They won't tolerate many Jeremiahs.

jmduke 13y ago
My favorite Internet community is Something Awful, and I'm surprised nobody's followed its curation model: put your money where your mouth is. Accounts cost $10, and you get banned (meaning you have to spend another $10) if you do dumb things.
- PhasmaFelis 13y ago
  For starters, when most forums ban people it's because they want them to leave. Allowing trolls and assholes free rein as long they're rich kind of runs counter to the whole point.
  - ioddly 13y ago
    Having to get out your credit card to swear at people on the internet seems to do a good job of getting people to stop and reconsider. Not always, but it helps.
  - jmduke 13y ago
    You can still get permanently banned after a certain number of violations.
  - bcoates 13y ago
    The trolls and assholes are still cleaned up after. There are people who spend a few hundred bucks trolling but they're essentially invisible unless you go looking for them.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    It's still way better than the way most sites work, which is to let trolls sign up for new accounts for free.
  - mutagen 13y ago
    The SA account cost and moderation work very well and do not result in a forum full of rich trolls. I've seen other forums use similar tactics (small cost of entry and strong moderation) to preserve a high signal to noise ratio.
- roryokane 13y ago
  MetaFilter has this model too, though I feel like it emphasizes stopping trolls getting in more than it does stopping banned trolls from returning. You must pay $5 to get a MetaFilter account.
- dktbs 13y ago
  I agree. SA is far from perfect, but the $10 entry fee combined with a group of active moderators improves the quality of the community.
- keypusher 13y ago
  Metafilter has followed this same model for many years.
spitfire 13y ago
Where are the boot-strappers camped out? I'm very interested in joining that camp.
- spindritf 13y ago
  Bootstrapped.fm[1]? I'm guessing. More exclusive communities would include Dynamite Circle[2] maybe. [1] http://discuss.bootstrapped.fm/ http://discuss.bootstrapped.fm/ [2] http://www.tropicalmba.com/innercircle/ http://www.tropicalmba.com/innercircle/
  - thetrumanshow 13y ago
    Indeed, a good place to start. Ian Landsman is very well connected to the community. However, keep in mind that the best kind of knowledge exchange is probably happening 1-on-1. Just like when attending conferences (Microconf, Business of Software, BaconBizConf, etc): there is a lot more value being exchanged in the hallways than in the auditoriums. If it feels a bit like networking... thats because it is.
- thetrumanshow 13y ago
  If you're at ground-level and just starting out, you can buy your way into a few (as jmduke pointed one out). I highly recommend joining Rob Walling's (rwalling) Micropreneur Academy and branching out from there. The cover charge is a bit pricey at ~$50 a month, but if you contribute to discussions and look for ways to help other people (this is key), you'll find your way forward into some other great communities. Another alternative is Amy Hoy's (ahoyhere) 30x500: http://30x500.com/ http://30x500.com/ Those are a couple of the public-access gates. Enter therein, and bring with you optimism, a willingness to share knowledge, and determination.
  - mratzloff 13y ago
    If you're at ground-level and just starting out, you can buy your way into a few (as jmduke pointed one out). I highly recommend joining Rob Walling's (rwalling) Micropreneur Academy and branching out from there. The cover charge is a bit pricey at ~$50 a month, but if you contribute to discussions and look for ways to help other people (this is key), you'll find your way forward into some great communities. At $50 per month, it certainly seems like a good way to keep the owners employed, at least.
elements 13y ago
Assuming one has created something that they are attempting to bootstrap, how does one go about finding these communities? Can they be found just by searching, or is it more difficult than that?
- thetrumanshow 13y ago
  Your question was answered, more or less, in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220479
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
It's interesting to me that discussion forums are now considered "startups." I suppose the distinction depends on whether the founders' primary goal is to stimulate discussion or to make money.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
"They watched what happened to HN and they're scared of killing quality." What did happen to HN, exactly? Maybe the bloom just hasn't worn off for me yet, but discussion here is about a million times more high-quality and productive than, say, Slashdot.
- thetrumanshow 13y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220632 The core problem with HN seems to be the tendency for people to lambast ideas before we've given them a chance to germinate. PG gets fiery mad at this behavior. Scoffing at ideas adds nothing, in fact it reduces the value of the conversation to the point that it has less-than-zero value. To use a (poorly constructed) analogy: if I want to laugh at nerds and their nerdy ideas, I should go join the ranks of nerd-scoffers at any local high-school, where I'd be a better fit. If you want to be part of the conversion here, you should bring a positive or constructive voice and try to improve on ideas, rather than tear them down.
- mirkules 13y ago
  I have been around HN for about 4 years now (I lurked before I created my account) -- there used to be all sorts of interesting articles on the front page (not just about programming, but genuinely interesting things like music, biology, psychology etc). Now, every third story is about NSA/Snowden, Openness, or someone's blog about how XYZ is bad and we should all do ABC instead. The front page typically has maybe one post that I care about these days. Comments similarly started lacking in quality, or maybe the really vocal minority are just louder than everyone else. You're right that slashdot comments are way worse (jokes aren't frowned-upon as they on HN, so a lot of discussions degrade to cheap jokes), but the articles are moderated by a handful of people and are typically more interesting. It's simply a function of a user-run moderation system that reaches a critical point, after which is it logistically impossible for the "good few" to moderate out all the bad ones because their votes count the same. We saw it in Slashdot comments, Digg and Reddit, and now we are seeing it here.
  - warcher 13y ago

jmduke 13y ago

My favorite Internet community is Something Awful, and I'm surprised nobody's followed its curation model: put your money where your mouth is. Accounts cost $10, and you get banned (meaning you have to spend another $10) if you do dumb things.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago
For starters, when most forums ban people it's because they want them to leave. Allowing trolls and assholes free rein as long they're rich kind of runs counter to the whole point.
- ioddly 13y ago
  Having to get out your credit card to swear at people on the internet seems to do a good job of getting people to stop and reconsider. Not always, but it helps.
- jmduke 13y ago
  You can still get permanently banned after a certain number of violations.
- bcoates 13y ago
  The trolls and assholes are still cleaned up after. There are people who spend a few hundred bucks trolling but they're essentially invisible unless you go looking for them.
- mikeash 13y ago
  It's still way better than the way most sites work, which is to let trolls sign up for new accounts for free.
- mutagen 13y ago
  The SA account cost and moderation work very well and do not result in a forum full of rich trolls. I've seen other forums use similar tactics (small cost of entry and strong moderation) to preserve a high signal to noise ratio.
roryokane 13y ago
MetaFilter has this model too, though I feel like it emphasizes stopping trolls getting in more than it does stopping banned trolls from returning. You must pay $5 to get a MetaFilter account.
dktbs 13y ago
I agree. SA is far from perfect, but the $10 entry fee combined with a group of active moderators improves the quality of the community.
keypusher 13y ago
Metafilter has followed this same model for many years.

spitfire 13y ago

Where are the boot-strappers camped out? I'm very interested in joining that camp.

spindritf 13y ago
Bootstrapped.fm[1]? I'm guessing. More exclusive communities would include Dynamite Circle[2] maybe. [1] http://discuss.bootstrapped.fm/ http://discuss.bootstrapped.fm/ [2] http://www.tropicalmba.com/innercircle/ http://www.tropicalmba.com/innercircle/
- thetrumanshow 13y ago
  Indeed, a good place to start. Ian Landsman is very well connected to the community. However, keep in mind that the best kind of knowledge exchange is probably happening 1-on-1. Just like when attending conferences (Microconf, Business of Software, BaconBizConf, etc): there is a lot more value being exchanged in the hallways than in the auditoriums. If it feels a bit like networking... thats because it is.
thetrumanshow 13y ago
If you're at ground-level and just starting out, you can buy your way into a few (as jmduke pointed one out). I highly recommend joining Rob Walling's (rwalling) Micropreneur Academy and branching out from there. The cover charge is a bit pricey at ~$50 a month, but if you contribute to discussions and look for ways to help other people (this is key), you'll find your way forward into some other great communities. Another alternative is Amy Hoy's (ahoyhere) 30x500: http://30x500.com/ http://30x500.com/ Those are a couple of the public-access gates. Enter therein, and bring with you optimism, a willingness to share knowledge, and determination.
- mratzloff 13y ago
  If you're at ground-level and just starting out, you can buy your way into a few (as jmduke pointed one out). I highly recommend joining Rob Walling's (rwalling) Micropreneur Academy and branching out from there. The cover charge is a bit pricey at ~$50 a month, but if you contribute to discussions and look for ways to help other people (this is key), you'll find your way forward into some great communities. At $50 per month, it certainly seems like a good way to keep the owners employed, at least.

elements 13y ago

Assuming one has created something that they are attempting to bootstrap, how does one go about finding these communities? Can they be found just by searching, or is it more difficult than that?

thetrumanshow 13y ago
Your question was answered, more or less, in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220479

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

It's interesting to me that discussion forums are now considered "startups." I suppose the distinction depends on whether the founders' primary goal is to stimulate discussion or to make money.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

"They watched what happened to HN and they're scared of killing quality." What did happen to HN, exactly? Maybe the bloom just hasn't worn off for me yet, but discussion here is about a million times more high-quality and productive than, say, Slashdot.

thetrumanshow 13y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220632 The core problem with HN seems to be the tendency for people to lambast ideas before we've given them a chance to germinate. PG gets fiery mad at this behavior. Scoffing at ideas adds nothing, in fact it reduces the value of the conversation to the point that it has less-than-zero value. To use a (poorly constructed) analogy: if I want to laugh at nerds and their nerdy ideas, I should go join the ranks of nerd-scoffers at any local high-school, where I'd be a better fit. If you want to be part of the conversion here, you should bring a positive or constructive voice and try to improve on ideas, rather than tear them down.
mirkules 13y ago
I have been around HN for about 4 years now (I lurked before I created my account) -- there used to be all sorts of interesting articles on the front page (not just about programming, but genuinely interesting things like music, biology, psychology etc). Now, every third story is about NSA/Snowden, Openness, or someone's blog about how XYZ is bad and we should all do ABC instead. The front page typically has maybe one post that I care about these days. Comments similarly started lacking in quality, or maybe the really vocal minority are just louder than everyone else. You're right that slashdot comments are way worse (jokes aren't frowned-upon as they on HN, so a lot of discussions degrade to cheap jokes), but the articles are moderated by a handful of people and are typically more interesting. It's simply a function of a user-run moderation system that reaches a critical point, after which is it logistically impossible for the "good few" to moderate out all the bad ones because their votes count the same. We saw it in Slashdot comments, Digg and Reddit, and now we are seeing it here.
- warcher 13y ago