5 ms·

Another interesting demonstration of the fact that behind a lot of crappy companies are teams of talented individuals. I've had the personal displeasure of boo

by karzeem 17y ago

Another interesting demonstration of the fact that behind a lot of crappy companies are teams of talented individuals. I've had the personal displeasure of booking tickets on AA.com many times in the past year or so. It was so bad, in fact, that every time, I had to call the company to change some details here and there. And uniformly, the people they have working the phones are fantastic. Friendly, helpful in a going-out-of-their-way-to-be-helpful sort of way, and clearly a lot better than the system they're a part of. This letter that Dustin got gives me more confidence that there's something to that observation.

ojbyrne 17y ago
I had an over the phone experience with an AA rep recently, and I totally agree. Very helpful, smart and courteous.
Maciek416 17y ago
"Another interesting demonstration of the fact that behind a lot of crappy companies are teams of talented individuals." I agree. I've worked in situations almost exactly like the one described in the reply, and at least one well-known public website redesign that many readers of HN have seen. When I first saw Dustin's rant a few days ago I just shook my head and said "he's probably never worked in a design agency that serves fortune 500 companies where this sort of stuff happens". The amount of political willpower and organizational strength required to pull off a total redesign in most fortune 500 companies or governmental agencies is tantamount to moving mountains. These are the type of organizations and client/agency relationships where the font size on a single button on a form in a "contact us" page can be debated for weeks, where talented designers sit in boardroom conferences till 2AM listening to teams of hundreds of people all throw in their 2 cents instead of actually working on the design that's being discussed. The thing (that you allude to) about the design agencies that get these kinds of contracts that's interesting is that they are full of exactly that: talented fantastically creative individuals. And when a team like the one I worked on finishes a massive redesign that gets covered across the web, there's a feeling of utter failure because the final product that makes it out is never even close to what could have been. Corporate politics reduce it to a mere shadow of that. At the same time, a feeling of relief and accomplishment for having just finished the damned thing and navigated the barbed wire mess of insanity that it takes to deliver such a thing. Next time you see a designer with a multinational bank, airline, consumer products & goods company, automotive company, government agency, etc, in their portfolio, ask about the emotional scars ;).
- bdotdub 17y ago
  I'm very curious why, as a talented designer, would you want these contracts? I mean I understand that I'm sure there is plenty of potential to do something great and I'm sure large companies compensate very well, but don't the inanities of meetings that take forever deter you from wanting to work on these jobs? I guess what I'm saying is that if I was a talented designer, I would want to work on things I enjoy, namely designing, and not having to deal with corporate bureaucracy. For every large corporate contract, there must be many more interesting projects out there. (or am I being a naive millenial? :)
  - Maciek416 17y ago
    I'm not sure, I often ask myself how I ended up in those situations as well (I'm a coder FWIW) and I still ask many designers working on projects such as these why they're doing it. The simplest answer seems to be that it just seems like the most natural place/industry for designers to gravitate to, and once they're there, they're kind of stuck in a tunnel. Coders have it a bit easier in that the path to starting their own thing or hopping between industries is much much shorter and easier. BTW I don't think you're being naive at all, I think these are very good questions to ask.
  - joshwa 17y ago
    Because those huge corporations with their broken cultures are the ones handing out all the money! There are not enough interesting mid-scale jobs out there to support all those talented designers/coders/etc to all do great/interesting things. Or, as some people would put it, "90% of everything is crap".
  - gills 17y ago
    Benefits, job security, and often sexier products.

by karzeem 17y ago

ojbyrne 17y ago

I had an over the phone experience with an AA rep recently, and I totally agree. Very helpful, smart and courteous.

Maciek416 17y ago

"Another interesting demonstration of the fact that behind a lot of crappy companies are teams of talented individuals." I agree. I've worked in situations almost exactly like the one described in the reply, and at least one well-known public website redesign that many readers of HN have seen. When I first saw Dustin's rant a few days ago I just shook my head and said "he's probably never worked in a design agency that serves fortune 500 companies where this sort of stuff happens". The amount of political willpower and organizational strength required to pull off a total redesign in most fortune 500 companies or governmental agencies is tantamount to moving mountains. These are the type of organizations and client/agency relationships where the font size on a single button on a form in a "contact us" page can be debated for weeks, where talented designers sit in boardroom conferences till 2AM listening to teams of hundreds of people all throw in their 2 cents instead of actually working on the design that's being discussed. The thing (that you allude to) about the design agencies that get these kinds of contracts that's interesting is that they are full of exactly that: talented fantastically creative individuals. And when a team like the one I worked on finishes a massive redesign that gets covered across the web, there's a feeling of utter failure because the final product that makes it out is never even close to what could have been. Corporate politics reduce it to a mere shadow of that. At the same time, a feeling of relief and accomplishment for having just finished the damned thing and navigated the barbed wire mess of insanity that it takes to deliver such a thing. Next time you see a designer with a multinational bank, airline, consumer products & goods company, automotive company, government agency, etc, in their portfolio, ask about the emotional scars ;).

bdotdub 17y ago
I'm very curious why, as a talented designer, would you want these contracts? I mean I understand that I'm sure there is plenty of potential to do something great and I'm sure large companies compensate very well, but don't the inanities of meetings that take forever deter you from wanting to work on these jobs? I guess what I'm saying is that if I was a talented designer, I would want to work on things I enjoy, namely designing, and not having to deal with corporate bureaucracy. For every large corporate contract, there must be many more interesting projects out there. (or am I being a naive millenial? :)
- Maciek416 17y ago
  I'm not sure, I often ask myself how I ended up in those situations as well (I'm a coder FWIW) and I still ask many designers working on projects such as these why they're doing it. The simplest answer seems to be that it just seems like the most natural place/industry for designers to gravitate to, and once they're there, they're kind of stuck in a tunnel. Coders have it a bit easier in that the path to starting their own thing or hopping between industries is much much shorter and easier. BTW I don't think you're being naive at all, I think these are very good questions to ask.
- joshwa 17y ago
  Because those huge corporations with their broken cultures are the ones handing out all the money! There are not enough interesting mid-scale jobs out there to support all those talented designers/coders/etc to all do great/interesting things. Or, as some people would put it, "90% of everything is crap".
- gills 17y ago
  Benefits, job security, and often sexier products.