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> I've had independent jobs as a designer (including one that was not related to software at all) and as a developer. Though I do bill myself as a designer and

by EnderMB 13y ago

> I've had independent jobs as a designer (including one that was not related to software at all) and as a developer. Though I do bill myself as a designer and developer because I enjoy both and prefer to have a job that is the mix of both. This is the way I've always found it to be in reality. I too have worked in both areas, and although I am good with Photoshop I've worked with too many good designers to ever want to classify myself as one of them. > I think that's fair for a number of reasons, but why not hire two people who are great at both aspects? Then they can collaborate on both sides of the project, which is surely better than having someone who can only design and someone who can only develop. Because I'd want someone who is both a great coder, and someone that knows design inside and out. I'm yet to see a single person that can boast impressive (senior-level) skills in both fields. Sure, there are plenty of developers that can design a good site, but the best designers do FAR more than this. Their skills lie in the process, rather than the ability to design. In similar vein, a great developer is far more than a code monkey. They have considered opinions on the functionality of a site, they are at home with JavaScript, understand cross-browser constraints, and are expected to work alongside designers to help with the process.

randomdata 13y ago
One thing I have noticed that when I've been only doing development for an extended period of time, my design skills go out the window and it takes a while to bring myself back to a level where I consider myself "good" again. The reverse is also true. With that, perhaps because of the hostile environment for designer/developers we've created in industry, you are always interacting with people who come from an environment that only fostered one side of their skills? And given that you are hard lined on the separation in your own workplace, you're not going to see them grow in the other direction either. Where I work, we've actually been encouraging the designers to learn how to program (not just simple markup stuff) and the results have been quite promising. It's really just a matter of practice, I am convinced.
- EnderMB 13y ago
  On the contrary, the agency I work at now is almost purely a development agency. We usually get freelancers in to handle design, but I will pick up Photoshop whenever I can to do very basic things, such as to mock-up a form change. However, I've worked with enough designers to know that even though I can create a design, that I am no designer, and that it would be offensive to a real designers ability for me to compare myself with them. I can cook a mean steak, but I'm no Gordon Ramsey. I agree entirely that all designers should learn to handle basic code, and vice versa. In fact, any agency I've worked at has worked similarly, and was very keen to get each "side" working collaboratively and learning how the other half lives. It's a necessary part of getting an agency working in the same direction. However, putting a designer in front of an IDE doesn't make them a developer by title.
  - randomdata 13y ago
    > I will pick up Photoshop whenever I can to do very basic things, such as to mock-up a form change. That's not exactly the kind of environment that fosters improvement on the design side though. In fact, your situation sounds similar to mine right now where the design work I do end up doing is basic things like that and the results usually end up being pretty poor. Your structure really has to treat design and development as one in the same if you want to see growth on both sides. But those jobs are so rare, people are forced into only one aspect of the job, which produces what you've witnessed. And thus begins the feedback loop.
    - EnderMB 13y ago
      You're making a number of baseless assumptions about the quality of my job. I'd say my company is more than ideal. In fact, I'd say that we're pretty darn close to having one of the best processes I've seen in an agency or startup. We work very closely with designers. We're a part of all kick-off meetings, we're involved in all phases, we even sit in during workshops so we understand the process from the client perspective. It is a process that works well in all manners of small business, and most importantly, it works for our clients. My design work is basic because the task is basic. Why pay for a designers time when I can modify something in 5 minutes? It's basic common sense to do so.

by EnderMB 13y ago

randomdata 13y ago

One thing I have noticed that when I've been only doing development for an extended period of time, my design skills go out the window and it takes a while to bring myself back to a level where I consider myself "good" again. The reverse is also true. With that, perhaps because of the hostile environment for designer/developers we've created in industry, you are always interacting with people who come from an environment that only fostered one side of their skills? And given that you are hard lined on the separation in your own workplace, you're not going to see them grow in the other direction either. Where I work, we've actually been encouraging the designers to learn how to program (not just simple markup stuff) and the results have been quite promising. It's really just a matter of practice, I am convinced.

EnderMB 13y ago
On the contrary, the agency I work at now is almost purely a development agency. We usually get freelancers in to handle design, but I will pick up Photoshop whenever I can to do very basic things, such as to mock-up a form change. However, I've worked with enough designers to know that even though I can create a design, that I am no designer, and that it would be offensive to a real designers ability for me to compare myself with them. I can cook a mean steak, but I'm no Gordon Ramsey. I agree entirely that all designers should learn to handle basic code, and vice versa. In fact, any agency I've worked at has worked similarly, and was very keen to get each "side" working collaboratively and learning how the other half lives. It's a necessary part of getting an agency working in the same direction. However, putting a designer in front of an IDE doesn't make them a developer by title.
- randomdata 13y ago
  > I will pick up Photoshop whenever I can to do very basic things, such as to mock-up a form change. That's not exactly the kind of environment that fosters improvement on the design side though. In fact, your situation sounds similar to mine right now where the design work I do end up doing is basic things like that and the results usually end up being pretty poor. Your structure really has to treat design and development as one in the same if you want to see growth on both sides. But those jobs are so rare, people are forced into only one aspect of the job, which produces what you've witnessed. And thus begins the feedback loop.
  - EnderMB 13y ago
    You're making a number of baseless assumptions about the quality of my job. I'd say my company is more than ideal. In fact, I'd say that we're pretty darn close to having one of the best processes I've seen in an agency or startup. We work very closely with designers. We're a part of all kick-off meetings, we're involved in all phases, we even sit in during workshops so we understand the process from the client perspective. It is a process that works well in all manners of small business, and most importantly, it works for our clients. My design work is basic because the task is basic. Why pay for a designers time when I can modify something in 5 minutes? It's basic common sense to do so.