6 ms·

Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet

90 points by SonicSoul 13y ago

diminoten 13y ago
Bigger guys may make you dependent, but smaller guys are easier for bullies to push around. I for one am not sold yet on the idea that these larger companies enjoy sharing data with the US government, and so I still think they're looking for ways to not have to do that if they're not literally compelled to.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Small guys can run away when they need to though. Just keep it cheap and disposable and abandon-able, like a image of your system you can spool up on plug n play commodity servers / free hosts and let the bullies spend their resources.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  There's a huge benefit that you get by DIYing your cloud as opposed to hosting it with a company, and that's that you cannot be the target of government shenanigans without your knowledge. If they want your data, there's a knock on a door and a warrant, not this illegal NSA demand BS. The other benefits (such as knowing that your stuff is encrypted, knowing the logging characteristics, etc) come for free with that.
dobbsbob 13y ago
Namecoin does a better job of jailbreaking the internet away from government controlled TLDs. There's already plenty of open source twitter and fb clones but one that runs over Gnunet would be interesting. The not-so pocket sized server is cool and all, but it's running on what is essentially a blackbox with tightly sealed patents. Might as well just write an Android server in a dalvik VM and host off your phone what's the difference if we are going the blackbox route.
- claudius 13y ago
  > They cobbled it together using a Raspberry Pi, a portable hard drive, and the Camlistore software built by Fitzpatrick and Slatkin. Do tell, how could something be less black-boxy than that?
  - dobbsbob 13y ago
    Something with at least hardware documentation. Pi is a bunch of binary blobs so might as well just make Android webservers, at least it will be a pocket sized bunch of sealed patents
    - nl 13y ago
      Pi is a bunch of binary blobs Wow, you have pretty high standards! High standards are good. A running platform is also good. Raspberry Pi has 2 binary blobs - the boot blob & the GPU blob. Personally, I'd prefer if they weren't needed. But I think the availability of a cheap, widely deployed and capable computing platform is more important. Yes, there are other choices that could be made for the hardware. People should be encouraged to explore those other options. Nevertheless I think the decision to build something on RaspberryPi is a good one.
regis 13y ago
Why are people so interested in recreating a 'more open X' (where X is something like dropbox, skype etc...)? When these people could actually be iterating on these ideas and creating something different. Is it because there is lots of money/publicity surrounding this new found interest in "openness" or do these people actually believe that this is the most important thing to be working on? I am just trying to imagine what kind of new openness we could create if we began thinking outside of the framework that current applications provide already. This is not not to say that they're not doing enough, but it's just a question that's been bouncing around in my head lately.
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  why isn't the iteration/improvement part making it open? i don't see the dichotomy.
  - roc 13y ago
    I'd imagine it's not seen as an improvement because (most) people don't value it. You might as well say you're improving a service by localizing a service for Esperanto. To some (small) audience, that well may be an improvement. But most people are going to wonder why you're 'wasting' that time.
- mattstreet 13y ago
  Openness helps people who aren't ready to reimplement the whole thing try to iterate their idea on top of what already exists, rather than doing the 98% of the work that is the same as the other product plus the even harder 2% brand new concept work.
- bslatkin 13y ago
  Here's my take on why open standards matter (from March '12): http://www.onebigfluke.com/2012/03/diversity-powers-growth-why-open.html http://www.onebigfluke.com/2012/03/diversity-powers-growth-w... - Open standards are important because they promote competition and diversity. - The opportunities of today exist because someone in the past thought about the long term. - Open standards are an investment in our collective future.
rossj 13y ago
There are some interesting interviews with people working on re-decentralising the web at http://redecentralize.org/ http://redecentralize.org/ - and there are more lined up for the coming weeks. Definitely worth a watch if you have the time.
- unhammer 13y ago
  https://unhosted.org/ https://unhosted.org/ is also interesting
  - rossj 13y ago
    Just in case you didn't see it before - github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet has a list of platforms,protocols and suchlike that are in this sort of area.
    - jaytaylor 13y ago
      https://github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet https://github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet
oscargrouch 13y ago
now theres a label for the type of working i am doing.. "indie web", despite im doing something completely different, but with the same basic intentions..
peterwwillis 13y ago
I'm so glad we're going back to the days of hosting a blog on your ADSL connection. Yay, freedom for my dat...! Shit, connection went out again. A little black box with a big hard drive and a web server on it? It's called a NAS, they've been around for a while. Can someone explain to me how such talented people can come up with such stupid ideas?
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  Wow, what an annoyingly arrogant, smug, ignorant shitty comment. Just because you're ignorant of what Camlistore is, doesn't make it any less interesting or cool. If anything, blame Wired for writing a puff-piece that doesn't do Camlistore justice. (The extra irony being that if you actually had a clue what you were talking about, you'd know how Camlistore effectively removes your first sentence from ever being an issue, if you choose to have your blobs mirrored in an always-on environment as well)
- wmf 13y ago
  I also prefer the cloud over a local box (except for storage), but I've stopped trying to argue with the plug people. I'll just take their software and run it in the cloud and enjoy the resulting higher performance and higher availability.
- oscargrouch 13y ago
  maybe not the perfect solution, but at least they are trying to do something about it, and not just being a meek lamb also being a techstar has its drawbacks.. people always spect more from them.. but technology its all about iteration, community, cooking ideas and getting back to the sketchpad to try something better.. we SHOULD do something about it, and i take my hat off, to whoever its trying to do something.. techstar or not.. brilliant or not.. the web has a tendency to centralization and one that is creating big black-hole titans that swallows everyone in between.. economically this means the beginning of end of the middle class, and a greater abism between the super rich and the poor.. so kudos to everyone trying to do something about that, and not just using because its fine.. there are "traps and tricks" in all of those free services that we happilly use for free storage is cheap.. processor is cheap.. computers(pc/phones/tables) are getting cheaper and faster so why are we using and depending of obscure clouds that much?
bifrost 13y ago
What does this have to do with the internet? This is more about what people do with it, than how the internet actually works... Frankly .onion sites are a bit more impressive than someone cobbling together a NAS and some random software.
jaytaylor 13y ago
Do any of you know what/where their IRC channel information is? I'm interested in checking it out.
- bslatkin 13y ago
  I believe it's #indiewebcamp on freenode http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC
- bradfitz 13y ago
  I find IRC to be distracting and more often than not a waste of time. I gave up IRC 10+ years ago and and am much happier. If people want to communicate, there are plenty of other options, both real-time and not.
bslatkin 13y ago
If you hack on this stuff, try to attend IndieWebCamp next year (or in the UK in September): http://indiewebcamp.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/
AsymetricCom 13y ago
Sounds more like they're making their own subtle jail on top of existing infrastructure. I wouldn't expect much from Wired, post 1999, anyway.
Bjoern 13y ago
Jailbreak the Internet? The first talk of the video link below goes in that direction giving some real ideas. Discussing GNUnet and Psyc2. Rather technical. "You broke the Internet. We're making ourselves a GNU one." by Christian Grothoff, Carlo von Lynx, Jacob Appelbaum, and Richard Stallman. https://gnunet.org/internetistschuld https://gnunet.org/internetistschuld
kyllo 13y ago
Most people commenting in this thread are missing the point. This is about giving you the ability to put your personal data on a server that you control first, and then having the ability to push it to cloud services you don't control (like Facebook, Twitter, Google apps) easily and selectively through those services' APIs. That way, from your perspective, all the "clouds" revolve around your personal server and they are all interchangeable and disposable to you, because you have all the data on your box and can just choose to push it somewhere else instead. It means you can use all the cloud services, but are no longer dependent on any one of them for storing your own data.

90 points by SonicSoul 13y ago

Bigger guys may make you dependent, but smaller guys are easier for bullies to push around. I for one am not sold yet on the idea that these larger companies enjoy sharing data with the US government, and so I still think they're looking for ways to not have to do that if they're not literally compelled to.

wavefunction 13y ago
Small guys can run away when they need to though. Just keep it cheap and disposable and abandon-able, like a image of your system you can spool up on plug n play commodity servers / free hosts and let the bullies spend their resources.
Karunamon 13y ago
There's a huge benefit that you get by DIYing your cloud as opposed to hosting it with a company, and that's that you cannot be the target of government shenanigans without your knowledge. If they want your data, there's a knock on a door and a warrant, not this illegal NSA demand BS. The other benefits (such as knowing that your stuff is encrypted, knowing the logging characteristics, etc) come for free with that.

dobbsbob 13y ago

Namecoin does a better job of jailbreaking the internet away from government controlled TLDs. There's already plenty of open source twitter and fb clones but one that runs over Gnunet would be interesting. The not-so pocket sized server is cool and all, but it's running on what is essentially a blackbox with tightly sealed patents. Might as well just write an Android server in a dalvik VM and host off your phone what's the difference if we are going the blackbox route.

claudius 13y ago
> They cobbled it together using a Raspberry Pi, a portable hard drive, and the Camlistore software built by Fitzpatrick and Slatkin. Do tell, how could something be less black-boxy than that?
- dobbsbob 13y ago
  Something with at least hardware documentation. Pi is a bunch of binary blobs so might as well just make Android webservers, at least it will be a pocket sized bunch of sealed patents
  - nl 13y ago
    Pi is a bunch of binary blobs Wow, you have pretty high standards! High standards are good. A running platform is also good. Raspberry Pi has 2 binary blobs - the boot blob & the GPU blob. Personally, I'd prefer if they weren't needed. But I think the availability of a cheap, widely deployed and capable computing platform is more important. Yes, there are other choices that could be made for the hardware. People should be encouraged to explore those other options. Nevertheless I think the decision to build something on RaspberryPi is a good one.

regis 13y ago

Why are people so interested in recreating a 'more open X' (where X is something like dropbox, skype etc...)? When these people could actually be iterating on these ideas and creating something different. Is it because there is lots of money/publicity surrounding this new found interest in "openness" or do these people actually believe that this is the most important thing to be working on? I am just trying to imagine what kind of new openness we could create if we began thinking outside of the framework that current applications provide already. This is not not to say that they're not doing enough, but it's just a question that's been bouncing around in my head lately.

andrewcooke 13y ago
why isn't the iteration/improvement part making it open? i don't see the dichotomy.
- roc 13y ago
  I'd imagine it's not seen as an improvement because (most) people don't value it. You might as well say you're improving a service by localizing a service for Esperanto. To some (small) audience, that well may be an improvement. But most people are going to wonder why you're 'wasting' that time.
mattstreet 13y ago
Openness helps people who aren't ready to reimplement the whole thing try to iterate their idea on top of what already exists, rather than doing the 98% of the work that is the same as the other product plus the even harder 2% brand new concept work.
bslatkin 13y ago
Here's my take on why open standards matter (from March '12): http://www.onebigfluke.com/2012/03/diversity-powers-growth-why-open.html http://www.onebigfluke.com/2012/03/diversity-powers-growth-w... - Open standards are important because they promote competition and diversity. - The opportunities of today exist because someone in the past thought about the long term. - Open standards are an investment in our collective future.

rossj 13y ago

There are some interesting interviews with people working on re-decentralising the web at http://redecentralize.org/ http://redecentralize.org/ - and there are more lined up for the coming weeks. Definitely worth a watch if you have the time.

unhammer 13y ago
https://unhosted.org/ https://unhosted.org/ is also interesting
- rossj 13y ago
  Just in case you didn't see it before - github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet has a list of platforms,protocols and suchlike that are in this sort of area.
  - jaytaylor 13y ago
    https://github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet https://github.com/rossjones/alternative-internet

oscargrouch 13y ago

now theres a label for the type of working i am doing.. "indie web", despite im doing something completely different, but with the same basic intentions..

peterwwillis 13y ago

I'm so glad we're going back to the days of hosting a blog on your ADSL connection. Yay, freedom for my dat...! Shit, connection went out again. A little black box with a big hard drive and a web server on it? It's called a NAS, they've been around for a while. Can someone explain to me how such talented people can come up with such stupid ideas?

drivebyacct2 13y ago
Wow, what an annoyingly arrogant, smug, ignorant shitty comment. Just because you're ignorant of what Camlistore is, doesn't make it any less interesting or cool. If anything, blame Wired for writing a puff-piece that doesn't do Camlistore justice. (The extra irony being that if you actually had a clue what you were talking about, you'd know how Camlistore effectively removes your first sentence from ever being an issue, if you choose to have your blobs mirrored in an always-on environment as well)
wmf 13y ago
I also prefer the cloud over a local box (except for storage), but I've stopped trying to argue with the plug people. I'll just take their software and run it in the cloud and enjoy the resulting higher performance and higher availability.
oscargrouch 13y ago
maybe not the perfect solution, but at least they are trying to do something about it, and not just being a meek lamb also being a techstar has its drawbacks.. people always spect more from them.. but technology its all about iteration, community, cooking ideas and getting back to the sketchpad to try something better.. we SHOULD do something about it, and i take my hat off, to whoever its trying to do something.. techstar or not.. brilliant or not.. the web has a tendency to centralization and one that is creating big black-hole titans that swallows everyone in between.. economically this means the beginning of end of the middle class, and a greater abism between the super rich and the poor.. so kudos to everyone trying to do something about that, and not just using because its fine.. there are "traps and tricks" in all of those free services that we happilly use for free storage is cheap.. processor is cheap.. computers(pc/phones/tables) are getting cheaper and faster so why are we using and depending of obscure clouds that much?

bifrost 13y ago

What does this have to do with the internet? This is more about what people do with it, than how the internet actually works... Frankly .onion sites are a bit more impressive than someone cobbling together a NAS and some random software.

jaytaylor 13y ago

Do any of you know what/where their IRC channel information is? I'm interested in checking it out.

bslatkin 13y ago
I believe it's #indiewebcamp on freenode http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC
bradfitz 13y ago
I find IRC to be distracting and more often than not a waste of time. I gave up IRC 10+ years ago and and am much happier. If people want to communicate, there are plenty of other options, both real-time and not.

bslatkin 13y ago

If you hack on this stuff, try to attend IndieWebCamp next year (or in the UK in September): http://indiewebcamp.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/

AsymetricCom 13y ago

Sounds more like they're making their own subtle jail on top of existing infrastructure. I wouldn't expect much from Wired, post 1999, anyway.

Bjoern 13y ago

Jailbreak the Internet? The first talk of the video link below goes in that direction giving some real ideas. Discussing GNUnet and Psyc2. Rather technical. "You broke the Internet. We're making ourselves a GNU one." by Christian Grothoff, Carlo von Lynx, Jacob Appelbaum, and Richard Stallman. https://gnunet.org/internetistschuld https://gnunet.org/internetistschuld

kyllo 13y ago

Most people commenting in this thread are missing the point. This is about giving you the ability to put your personal data on a server that you control first, and then having the ability to push it to cloud services you don't control (like Facebook, Twitter, Google apps) easily and selectively through those services' APIs. That way, from your perspective, all the "clouds" revolve around your personal server and they are all interchangeable and disposable to you, because you have all the data on your box and can just choose to push it somewhere else instead. It means you can use all the cloud services, but are no longer dependent on any one of them for storing your own data.