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Interesting question being asked in the comment section I'd like to repeat here. Is it correct to call yourself a (software, web, backend, whatever) engineer wi

Interesting question being asked in the comment section I'd like to repeat here. Is it correct to call yourself a (software, web, backend, whatever) engineer without actually holding an university engineering degree?

jlas 13y ago
Why not? If someone hires you to be an engineer and you succeed, then go for it. In the end I think what matters most in what you call yourself is the confidence you have in your skills.
- afandian 13y ago
  Because 'Engineer' is a regulated / protected term in a lot of places. You can get in big trouble calling yourself an 'engineer'. There's a whole debate about this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineer#Use_of_the_title_.22Engineer.22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineer#Use_of_the_ti...
  - kamjam 13y ago
    I take your point, but I think it depends on where you work. I used to be a "web developer", I still consider myself that (I don't particularly care what my title is tbh). When I started job hunting a few years back companies (in the UK) were advertising for "Software Engineers". I didn't want to sell myself as subpar so my job titles got rewritten on my CV to help market myself. At some point, the term "web developer" got associated with people just "messing around" with non-serious tech, scripted languages for example were seen as for people just starting out and not serious, whereas any serious "software engineer" would use OOP, design principles and frameworks. This is amongst people I worked with, so by no means a reflection of whole industry.
    - afandian 13y ago
      Certainly it does. I used to be a Software Engineer. I'm now a Developer. I've got a new job lined up where I'm going to be an R&D Programmer. I'm still the same person (although the work will be slightly different in each case). I wasn't prescribing either way, I was just answering your question.
cancelbubble 13y ago
The main problem I see with engineering in a web dev context is it isn't really engineering. A lot of times it's more assembling. That isn't as glamorous as "engineering" and to a lot of people I've encountered/worked with, that "engineer" title is important. I personally don't see it, for the most part, as a true engineering discipline.
kamjam 13y ago
Engineering degree in what? Mechanical engineering? Electrical engineering? Architectural engineering? etc. These have nothing to with software either. Politicians often don't have a university degree related to politics...
- jarek 13y ago
  > Engineering degree in what? Software engineering.
  - kamjam 13y ago
    The point still stands. Just because you studied it at university does not make you an engineer in the field or necessarily any good at it. We don't need parrots, we need thinkers and sometimes that means drawing on experience from different fields. I know plenty of software engineers that never went to university, and one of the best dev's a know studied Russian. Undoubtedly mathematics is the underpinning for programming, if someone held that degree would they be any less of an engineer, esp given a lot of work relies heavily on algorithms?
    - kabouseng 13y ago
      No, but being registered with a certification body does for example the IEEE (http://www.ieee.org/ http://www.ieee.org/). Just for interest sake, would you apply your same logic to surgeons and pilots etc?
      - kamjam 13y ago
        Surgeons, sure you need relevant education. But pilots, do you require them to have a degree in flying, or aeronautics? Sure they have to be licensed, but that's different from having a degree in the subject - which is what the original question was. As for being a member of a relevant organisation, I think that comes down to what you are working on. If I had a mission critical* piece of software (used in military, medical, lift mechanism etc) then I would specify that all employees need to have certain minimal credentials. Am I going to be better at my job coding up some websites which just provide some info, probably not. Anyway, IMO titles are meaningless in this industry, the ability to do the job is far more important. *subjective, I know.
omni 13y ago
The actual ability to do a job correctly is more important than a piece of paper that implies you might have the ability to do a job correctly.

jlas 13y ago

Why not? If someone hires you to be an engineer and you succeed, then go for it. In the end I think what matters most in what you call yourself is the confidence you have in your skills.

afandian 13y ago
Because 'Engineer' is a regulated / protected term in a lot of places. You can get in big trouble calling yourself an 'engineer'. There's a whole debate about this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineer#Use_of_the_title_.22Engineer.22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineer#Use_of_the_ti...
- kamjam 13y ago
  I take your point, but I think it depends on where you work. I used to be a "web developer", I still consider myself that (I don't particularly care what my title is tbh). When I started job hunting a few years back companies (in the UK) were advertising for "Software Engineers". I didn't want to sell myself as subpar so my job titles got rewritten on my CV to help market myself. At some point, the term "web developer" got associated with people just "messing around" with non-serious tech, scripted languages for example were seen as for people just starting out and not serious, whereas any serious "software engineer" would use OOP, design principles and frameworks. This is amongst people I worked with, so by no means a reflection of whole industry.
  - afandian 13y ago
    Certainly it does. I used to be a Software Engineer. I'm now a Developer. I've got a new job lined up where I'm going to be an R&D Programmer. I'm still the same person (although the work will be slightly different in each case). I wasn't prescribing either way, I was just answering your question.

cancelbubble 13y ago

The main problem I see with engineering in a web dev context is it isn't really engineering. A lot of times it's more assembling. That isn't as glamorous as "engineering" and to a lot of people I've encountered/worked with, that "engineer" title is important. I personally don't see it, for the most part, as a true engineering discipline.

kamjam 13y ago

Engineering degree in what? Mechanical engineering? Electrical engineering? Architectural engineering? etc. These have nothing to with software either. Politicians often don't have a university degree related to politics...

jarek 13y ago
> Engineering degree in what? Software engineering.
- kamjam 13y ago
  The point still stands. Just because you studied it at university does not make you an engineer in the field or necessarily any good at it. We don't need parrots, we need thinkers and sometimes that means drawing on experience from different fields. I know plenty of software engineers that never went to university, and one of the best dev's a know studied Russian. Undoubtedly mathematics is the underpinning for programming, if someone held that degree would they be any less of an engineer, esp given a lot of work relies heavily on algorithms?
  - kabouseng 13y ago
    No, but being registered with a certification body does for example the IEEE (http://www.ieee.org/ http://www.ieee.org/). Just for interest sake, would you apply your same logic to surgeons and pilots etc?
    - kamjam 13y ago
      Surgeons, sure you need relevant education. But pilots, do you require them to have a degree in flying, or aeronautics? Sure they have to be licensed, but that's different from having a degree in the subject - which is what the original question was. As for being a member of a relevant organisation, I think that comes down to what you are working on. If I had a mission critical* piece of software (used in military, medical, lift mechanism etc) then I would specify that all employees need to have certain minimal credentials. Am I going to be better at my job coding up some websites which just provide some info, probably not. Anyway, IMO titles are meaningless in this industry, the ability to do the job is far more important. *subjective, I know.

omni 13y ago

The actual ability to do a job correctly is more important than a piece of paper that implies you might have the ability to do a job correctly.