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And on the flip side, if you are a freelancer with a title of "Web Designer" then it is expected that you can also build the webpages that you create. Businesse

And on the flip side, if you are a freelancer with a title of "Web Designer" then it is expected that you can also build the webpages that you create. Businesses want someone to design & build them a website and if you can only do part of that job then you can only make part of the money they want to pay. I don't know anyone doing web design consulting/freelancing who can't also write HTML and CSS.

EnderMB 13y ago
I've met a few freelancers that claim to be able to do both, but they tend to fall into either the designer or developer camp; either a good developer that can just about use Photoshop, or a designer that can throw some mark-up together. In each instance they've always classed themselves as "Web Designer and Developer" and never as either. Either way, I'd never hire one person to do everything, and no company I've ever worked at, including non-tech companies have ever been ignorant enough to suggest that one person should do everything. A designer designs and a developer develops. I wouldn't expect a plasterer to fit my windows on my house.
- bluthru 13y ago
  >I wouldn't expect a plasterer to fit my windows on my house. I don't think that analogy fits. A more apt analogy would be "an architect creates the construction documents for his/her designs." I'm an architect and I can also do web design and front-end development (with some light server-side code). Understanding the medium is essential to be a good designer. Html/css informs visual design for the web, just like materiality and structure informs building design. Design thrives on informed constraints--otherwise it's just art. Some web designers today go straight to code after some sketches.
  - EnderMB 13y ago
    The analogy is the least important part of the post. The argument still stands that a designer designs and a developer develops. Some designers do go straight to code, but usually in a prototyping stage and absolutely not as a build for a final website. The original post is about outlining a job title, and anyone that has worked with a half-decent designer will know that there is FAR more to design than simply setting up a PSD or sketching out a structure, using either a prototyping tool or straight in code (using something like Zurb Foundation). I'd argue that there's far more to understanding the medium, and the constraints of building for the web. Any design agency will run a business through a number of processes to come up with a design that accurately represents them, before ANY design work has been done. UX is a part of this, but there are also many other stages in planning. Some agencies are big on archtypes, some are big on kick-off workshops. When you take all that stuff into consideration, the analogy isn't so far off. What a lot of professional designers do is very far from mocking up a structure in code or in a PSD. On the flip side, I know some designers that do create prototypes using something like Foundation, but very few of them would ever want to be trusted with a front-end build for a real project.
- randomdata 13y ago
  > In each instance they've always classed themselves as "Web Designer and Developer" and never as either. I've had independent jobs as a designer (including one that was not related to software at all) and as a developer. Though I do bill myself as a designer and developer because I enjoy both and prefer to have a job that is the mix of both. > I'd never hire one person to do everything I think that's fair for a number of reasons, but why not hire two people who are great at both aspects? Then they can collaborate on both sides of the project, which is surely better than having someone who can only design and someone who can only develop.
  - EnderMB 13y ago
    > I've had independent jobs as a designer (including one that was not related to software at all) and as a developer. Though I do bill myself as a designer and developer because I enjoy both and prefer to have a job that is the mix of both. This is the way I've always found it to be in reality. I too have worked in both areas, and although I am good with Photoshop I've worked with too many good designers to ever want to classify myself as one of them. > I think that's fair for a number of reasons, but why not hire two people who are great at both aspects? Then they can collaborate on both sides of the project, which is surely better than having someone who can only design and someone who can only develop. Because I'd want someone who is both a great coder, and someone that knows design inside and out. I'm yet to see a single person that can boast impressive (senior-level) skills in both fields. Sure, there are plenty of developers that can design a good site, but the best designers do FAR more than this. Their skills lie in the process, rather than the ability to design. In similar vein, a great developer is far more than a code monkey. They have considered opinions on the functionality of a site, they are at home with JavaScript, understand cross-browser constraints, and are expected to work alongside designers to help with the process.
    - randomdata 13y ago
      One thing I have noticed that when I've been only doing development for an extended period of time, my design skills go out the window and it takes a while to bring myself back to a level where I consider myself "good" again. The reverse is also true. With that, perhaps because of the hostile environment for designer/developers we've created in industry, you are always interacting with people who come from an environment that only fostered one side of their skills? And given that you are hard lined on the separation in your own workplace, you're not going to see them grow in the other direction either. Where I work, we've actually been encouraging the designers to learn how to program (not just simple markup stuff) and the results have been quite promising. It's really just a matter of practice, I am convinced.

EnderMB 13y ago

I've met a few freelancers that claim to be able to do both, but they tend to fall into either the designer or developer camp; either a good developer that can just about use Photoshop, or a designer that can throw some mark-up together. In each instance they've always classed themselves as "Web Designer and Developer" and never as either. Either way, I'd never hire one person to do everything, and no company I've ever worked at, including non-tech companies have ever been ignorant enough to suggest that one person should do everything. A designer designs and a developer develops. I wouldn't expect a plasterer to fit my windows on my house.

bluthru 13y ago
>I wouldn't expect a plasterer to fit my windows on my house. I don't think that analogy fits. A more apt analogy would be "an architect creates the construction documents for his/her designs." I'm an architect and I can also do web design and front-end development (with some light server-side code). Understanding the medium is essential to be a good designer. Html/css informs visual design for the web, just like materiality and structure informs building design. Design thrives on informed constraints--otherwise it's just art. Some web designers today go straight to code after some sketches.
- EnderMB 13y ago
  The analogy is the least important part of the post. The argument still stands that a designer designs and a developer develops. Some designers do go straight to code, but usually in a prototyping stage and absolutely not as a build for a final website. The original post is about outlining a job title, and anyone that has worked with a half-decent designer will know that there is FAR more to design than simply setting up a PSD or sketching out a structure, using either a prototyping tool or straight in code (using something like Zurb Foundation). I'd argue that there's far more to understanding the medium, and the constraints of building for the web. Any design agency will run a business through a number of processes to come up with a design that accurately represents them, before ANY design work has been done. UX is a part of this, but there are also many other stages in planning. Some agencies are big on archtypes, some are big on kick-off workshops. When you take all that stuff into consideration, the analogy isn't so far off. What a lot of professional designers do is very far from mocking up a structure in code or in a PSD. On the flip side, I know some designers that do create prototypes using something like Foundation, but very few of them would ever want to be trusted with a front-end build for a real project.
randomdata 13y ago
> In each instance they've always classed themselves as "Web Designer and Developer" and never as either. I've had independent jobs as a designer (including one that was not related to software at all) and as a developer. Though I do bill myself as a designer and developer because I enjoy both and prefer to have a job that is the mix of both. > I'd never hire one person to do everything I think that's fair for a number of reasons, but why not hire two people who are great at both aspects? Then they can collaborate on both sides of the project, which is surely better than having someone who can only design and someone who can only develop.
- EnderMB 13y ago
  > I've had independent jobs as a designer (including one that was not related to software at all) and as a developer. Though I do bill myself as a designer and developer because I enjoy both and prefer to have a job that is the mix of both. This is the way I've always found it to be in reality. I too have worked in both areas, and although I am good with Photoshop I've worked with too many good designers to ever want to classify myself as one of them. > I think that's fair for a number of reasons, but why not hire two people who are great at both aspects? Then they can collaborate on both sides of the project, which is surely better than having someone who can only design and someone who can only develop. Because I'd want someone who is both a great coder, and someone that knows design inside and out. I'm yet to see a single person that can boast impressive (senior-level) skills in both fields. Sure, there are plenty of developers that can design a good site, but the best designers do FAR more than this. Their skills lie in the process, rather than the ability to design. In similar vein, a great developer is far more than a code monkey. They have considered opinions on the functionality of a site, they are at home with JavaScript, understand cross-browser constraints, and are expected to work alongside designers to help with the process.
  - randomdata 13y ago
    One thing I have noticed that when I've been only doing development for an extended period of time, my design skills go out the window and it takes a while to bring myself back to a level where I consider myself "good" again. The reverse is also true. With that, perhaps because of the hostile environment for designer/developers we've created in industry, you are always interacting with people who come from an environment that only fostered one side of their skills? And given that you are hard lined on the separation in your own workplace, you're not going to see them grow in the other direction either. Where I work, we've actually been encouraging the designers to learn how to program (not just simple markup stuff) and the results have been quite promising. It's really just a matter of practice, I am convinced.