4 ms·

The 2008 RAND study has been widely debunked. Any idea of the RCS(X-band) of a F-22, or a F-35 for that matter? F-22: 0.0005 m2 F-35: 0.0015 m2 F-16C: 1.0m2

The 2008 RAND study has been widely debunked. Any idea of the RCS(X-band) of a F-22, or a F-35 for that matter? F-22: 0.0005 m2 F-35: 0.0015 m2 F-16C: 1.0m2 Su-27/Su-30 Flanker: 10.0m2 (China has this series and J-11 "Flankers" built domestically) Su-35 (Advanced) Flanker: 1.0m2 (Russia only) From the front a stealthy F-35 is basically noise against the background using X-Band radar. The latest L-Band radar on a Su-30MKI (Bars N011M) or Su-35 AESA couldn't actually track a stealth target but might get a faint return. My comment about the missile is that most missiles don't maintain full thrust the entire flight over 30NM - they have an initial boost to Mach 2.5+, then they coast at lower thrust until reaching the target. Newer missiles might have terminal boost but this would likely not be enough to hit an F-35 that sees the missile on EODAS. Very few Russian (or US made) missiles can shoot down a jet fighter at 20NM+ when that fighter detects the missile. I'm familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the Su-27 and Su-30. The Su-27 OLS is the best feature against a stealth adversary but its nowhere near as good as the F-35 EODAS. A F-35 would be almost impossible to track at 30NM using AESA radar much less a F-22. An F-15C with the latest APG-82 AESA can't track a F-22 for radar lock at 1000 ft range so what chance would a Su-30 have at 30NM. The SU-30 pilot would have to manually cue the OLS without radar. Auto-cueing a heat source would lock onto the flares. In around 60-90 seconds into the merge an F-35 would be within range for an AIM-9 Sidewinder missile shot while the Su-30 pilot is trying to cue the OLS manually. Most recent dogfights are over in under 2 minutes. Take a look at this documentary on the F-22 program. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Sh1SAaJz0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Sh1SAaJz0 And here is the RAND press release about the previous report you referenced. http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/09/25.html http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/09/25.html "Those reports are not accurate."

Tloewald 13y ago
Before the battle of Midway the Japanese navy wargamed the battle and cadets (playing the US) did to the Japanese exactly what the actual US navy did. Naval command debunked the results, changed the rules, ran a new wargame, and won. They then went and got the core of their actual navy destroyed. Any argument like this in favor of the F35 is very dubious. You're talking about the F35 allegedly defeating older technology with radar, stealth, and missiles. Yow know what will win using radar, stealth, and missiles? Drones. Who might suddenly show up to a battlefield with a lot of drones?
jasonwatkinspdx 13y ago
Yeah, it's also hard to do an apples to apples comparison. Should the F-35 be compared to competitors that are in operation now, or ones that will be available for purchase at the same time the JSF is? This gets even more difficult with the SU jets, because they've shifted to a very aggressive continuous upgrade program. So in particular with the radars and the EW stuff it's not clear what gear a given model will actually have.

Tloewald 13y ago

Before the battle of Midway the Japanese navy wargamed the battle and cadets (playing the US) did to the Japanese exactly what the actual US navy did. Naval command debunked the results, changed the rules, ran a new wargame, and won. They then went and got the core of their actual navy destroyed. Any argument like this in favor of the F35 is very dubious. You're talking about the F35 allegedly defeating older technology with radar, stealth, and missiles. Yow know what will win using radar, stealth, and missiles? Drones. Who might suddenly show up to a battlefield with a lot of drones?

jasonwatkinspdx 13y ago

Yeah, it's also hard to do an apples to apples comparison. Should the F-35 be compared to competitors that are in operation now, or ones that will be available for purchase at the same time the JSF is? This gets even more difficult with the SU jets, because they've shifted to a very aggressive continuous upgrade program. So in particular with the radars and the EW stuff it's not clear what gear a given model will actually have.