10 ms·
Sheryl Sandberg earns $100M, but won't pay interns
- nyar 13y agoInterns aren't employees and aren't allowed to do things that generate income.
- nkassis 13y agoIf unpaid, paid interns can do work that generate income.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- GauntletWizard 13y agoIn many cases, yes. You cannot have an intern do any activity that would normally fall to a paid worker, if the intern is unpaid. Many companies do have internship programs where they pay interns, and are allowed to do proper work.
- delinka 13y agoBut why would she seek an intern at all? Why not hire someone?
- aa0 13y agoMany companies do this, when they're about the bottom dollar. IE. her company is caustic and grimy, the status quo (sorry to say.)
- aa0 13y agoWould you mind citing the law?
- eogas 13y agonyar should have specified "unpaid interns": http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- WalterSear 13y agoRTFA. It's clearly an income generating position.
- MysticFear 13y agoWhy pay when you can get high quality labor for free?
- eropple 13y agoBecause you aren't a shitty person? I mean, to me, it's that simple. You can abuse the desperation of people needing work, or you can pay a good wage for the work that they do. I consider it a moral good to employ at a sane wage despite the ability to burn others without fallout; for similar reasons, I don't shop at Wal-Mart but will shop at Costco.
- protomyth 13y agoFunny, I'll shop at the local Wal-Mart because they pay better than the local grocery store and use much less scummy political tactics. We have some real winners for local business people.
- eropple 13y agoYikes - that's pretty grim. I live in Massachusetts and we tend to have pretty good local businesses, so I tend to prioritize those, but bulk buying is pretty much the province of Costco (or Sam's, but that's part of Wal-Mart and aren't really any better towards their workers anyway).
- hkmurakami 13y agopeople generally pay the sminimum they must. rarely is there an exception. I respect those who are responsible for the exceptions, especially those who do it with conviction.
- oh 13y agoGive me a break. How many big corporations have unpaid internships? Yes, it sucks that not everyone is in a position to accept unpaid internships. But pointing fingers at Sheryl Sandberg because her company is doing the same as an untold number of others is disingenuous.
- roedog 13y agoBut those other big companies with unpaid internships didn't publish a book about how they believe in empowering individuals (albeit women individuals in this case). Some finger pointing seems warranted in that her company's actions do not match her words...
- bmmayer1 13y agoEmpowering women and unpaid internships are not mutually exclusive. In fact, you could say that unpaid internships are extremely empowering, because it gives the prospective employee on the job training that they wouldn't get if they were unemployed.
- roedog 13y agoWell, if Sandberg takes that position in her book then she shouldn't deserve finger pointing I suppose. But since she talks about leveling the playing field in the workforce and fixing the salary gender gap is part of that I'd say she believes that cash money is a key source of empowerment.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago"you could say that unpaid internships are extremely empowering" You can say lots of things. Doesn't make them true. If the prospective employee needs to eat this month, unpaid internships can be as empowering as they like, however the prospective employee will not be able to indulge themselves.
- auctiontheory 13y agoYou could also say that unpaid internships at fancy employers empower only those with parents able to foot the bill for their "on the job training." Those who need to work to pay the rent will never be empowered to get on that ladder. The government does not offer "unpaid internship loans."
- bmmayer1 13y agoThis is fluff. Unpaid internships are so mainstream there's really no reason to call out Sheryl Sandberg personally for being associated with the practice (as opposed to every big bank in America which have 100x more money and also have unpaid interns). Furthermore, the amount of money the company/CEO has is completely irrelevant to what constitutes a market wage for a position. Sheryl Sandberg can afford to pay interns $100,000/year also, but the job isn't worth that much so no one is outraged that she's not doing it.
- stfu 13y agoYes, but the only difference is that Sandberg portraits herself as an advocate for work fairness and equality. Therefore I think it is fair game to call her out personally.
- samstave 13y agoI've noticed a pattern with people who are very public figures/very wealthy calling themselves an advocate of fairness/equality/whatever....
- marincounty 13y agoYea, I agree. There's nothing worse than a hypocrite. Well, almost nothing?
- prostoalex 13y agoHer personal assets != foundation assets. Presumably she runs a non-profit, which, for better or worse, are frequently graded on value delivered vs. administrative expenses. Paying an intern is an administrative expense.
- endianswap 13y agoMy problem isn't necessarily with unpaid interns, but how the industry treats paid interns. Specifically how it seems like the current industry trend is to hire younger engineers as "interns", even though they've graduated university, in order to treat them as trial/probation employees. I'm not sure what can be done about it, but it's frustrating seeing friends be excited that they got a "real programming job" but are hourly, low-benefits, low-job-security that do the same work as their salaried coworkers but happen to be junior enough to be taken advantage of this way.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- elnate 13y ago"I'm not sure what can be done about it" Employee protection laws. A lot of countries have them, mine did too before the neo-libs dismantled it.
- NegativeK 13y agoThe US, of all places, has the laws on the books. They're ignored.
- ChuckMcM 13y agoThat does seem rather odd. So what if folks offered a salary but also made it strictly probationary up front. Sort of "You are going to be evaluated after 6 months/a year on the job and if you don't meet our expectations you are out." ? This was essentially what Google to engineers when I worked there. They worked for generally just under a year, got reviewed, and then if they didn't measure up to the "level" that they had hired in at, they let them go. They were somewhat up front about it if you pressed them. But I didn't meet anyone there who particularly appreciated it when others would hire them and not do the whole 'check in a year' thing.
- elithrar 13y ago> That does seem rather odd. So what if folks offered a salary but also made it strictly probationary up front. Sort of "You are going to be evaluated after 6 months/a year on the job and if you don't meet our expectations you are out." ? This is exactly how it works here in Australia, for graduate and "normal" positions alike. 3 months probation with minimal notice, option to extend to 6 (but no greater due to workplace regs). Works well and means the employer doesn't have to take you on as a "casual" just to avoid the risk that you might be shit.
- pbreit 13y agoI might have a problem if it wasn't a high-profile non-profit. And the headline's a bit mis-leading considering how little Sandberg has to do with the hiring.
- losethos 13y agopets God says... C:\TAD\Text\QUIX.TXT d the bowels of the bottles into their own stomachs. Sancho beheld all, "and nothing gave him pain;" so far from that, acting on the proverb he knew so well, "when thou art at Rome do as thou seest," he asked Ricote for his bota and took aim like the rest of them, and with not less enjoyment. Four times did the botas bear being uplifted, but the fifth it was all in vain, for they were drier and more sapless than a rush by that time, which made the jollity that had been kept up so far begin to fla
- mugenx86 13y agoIf only having loads of money was coupled with an obligation to be fair...
- ChrisLTD 13y agoThis is why we should have more progressive taxation. The lower rungs of the economic shouldn't have to depend on the largesse of the wealthy few.
- rhc2104 13y agoTo people that didn't read the article: The internship is for Lean In, a non-profit she started, and not for Facebook. Minimum wage laws apply far less to non-profits, since you can legally volunteer at a non-profit.
- kevin 13y agoFor a lot universities and colleges, if you're doing an internship for academic credit, you cannot be paid.
- Techskeptic 13y agoLol. This is funny. To break into Wall Street, you almost have to have an unpaid internship. If you do well, they offer you a job there. If you don't, they don't. People just WANT to hate Sandberg. An internship is a chance to learn; you aren't entitled to learn at a company. Paid interns are the exception; they are odd. You're used too Google too quickly and clearly don't understand how most industries operate. If you think apprenticing would be more beneficial, call it that. Interning is an opportunity to learn, not to pay rent.
- moocowduckquack 13y agoThat tells us less about what is normal practice by most businesses and more about how screwed our financial system has become. If I am running an organisation, I want the best people, not just the best people from the group who's parents are wealthy enough to let them not need to work in the first place.
- thrownaway2424 13y agoUh, no? To break into Wall Street you go to Yale and then your dad's friends hire you.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- hawkharris 13y agoDuring my first internship at a newspaper, an editor asked me, "Would you walk into a butcher shop and ask the butcher for free meat?" "No, I don't think so," I replied, confused by his question. "So who in their right mind would think it's okay to ask a writer for free words?" Although the paper had a small budget, he gave me a modest stipend for each article. It wasn't about the money; it was about what the money represented: respect for a person's time and energy. I took his career advice to heart and never worked for a company that didn't value its employees enough to pay them.
- pdog 13y agoInterns aren't employees.
- NegativeK 13y agoIf an intern does _any_ usable work, they are, by federal law, required to be paid. True unpaid interns aren't employees, as they should be purely learning. hawkharris said he was writing articles; that's not just learning.
- eightyone 13y agoSpeaking from a lot of experience, they're often treated as such.
- cpeterso 13y agoEmployees are not the only people that companies write checks to.
- sureshv 13y agoIf they get a W-2 they are employees; maybe not full-time.
- tbrooks 13y agoIf an intern knew they wouldn't be getting paid before they started and no one forced them to take the job, I don't see any reason to complain.
- mparlane 13y agoIt's actually unfair to those who have the required skills but can't afford to work without pay.
- roopeshv 13y agoand the flipside is it's unfair to those who want to earn skills even if it means they don't get paid.
- intopieces 13y agoFairness is an issue for the have-nots, not the haves. It isn't unfair that a person who can afford food doesn't receive food stamps, for example.
- krstck 13y agoWhere does this end? Are companies going to start posting for interns to pay them for the privilege of an internship?
- viennacoder 13y agoIt doesn't even seem like Sheryl knew about this internship/volunteer position.
- clarky07 13y agoThis seems like BS to me. I can't imagine myself ever accepting an unpaid internship (or any kind of unpaid work. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do charity work, but I'm not accepting a job for nothing). If there are idiots out there who like to work for free, let them. Also, this is a non-profit, so "volunteering" is just fine. Granted the posting sounds a lot more like a job than charity work, but hey, if they can find people going for it then more power to them.
- chasing 13y agoFrom the US Department of Labor, an unpaid internship is legal only if all of these criteria are met (and I quote): 1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment; 2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern; 3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff; 4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded; 5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and 6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship. (http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm) Labor laws in the United States were hard won, and we should not forget this. Along with minimum wage laws, they benefit all of us who must work to maintain our lives. So expecting someone to provide you free labor with no compensation for their efforts is not only immoral, it's illegal. If you work, you deserve to get paid. If you expect someone to work for you, you should be honored to be able to pay them reasonably for their time and effort. Why is this so difficult to understand?
- wdr1 13y agoInteresting none of these would apply to Congressional interns who are also unpaid, as well as those in the White House. I wonder when the government will get around to investigating themselves?
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- booop 13y agoShe should capitalize on the media attention by turning it into one of the highest paid internships.
- cafard 13y agoI object to unpaid internships chiefly because they tend to reinforce privilege. The kid whose family is just getting by doesn't take unpaid internships--he's out working for pay, maybe coding, maybe waiting tables. The kid taking the unpaid internship is generally not getting a bad deal, for his or her family is willing to cover any loss of wages for kid's chance to shuffle papers of Sheryl Sandberg. (Let me add that this is an objection on principle, not one of resentment; I never heard of such arrangements when I was of an age to be an intern.)
- peat 13y agoMy career was kickstarted by a paid internship. It wasn't much, but it was enough for someone fresh out of high school to get by the the summer -- and build a career out of it. http://peat.org/2013/08/15/take-a-chance-on-an-intern/ http://peat.org/2013/08/15/take-a-chance-on-an-intern/ The "getting paid" part was key. I could really focus on the work I was trying to do. Better for me, better for my employer -- better for everyone. It doesn't have to be much. It just has to be something.