5 ms·

You know when people talk about negativity in Hacker News comments? This is what they mean.

marssaxman 13y ago
Not sure what you mean by that. I meant exactly what I said: I feel sorry for anyone whose linguistic toolbox is so limited that Javascript is their best option for writing low-level code for manipulating electronic devices. It is hard to imagine a more profound mismatch between the tool and the problem it is supposed to solve.
- lifeformed 13y ago
  I just want to program a little thingy to do fun stuff, and this is it. I don't care about languages, I already know js.
  - PommeDeTerre 13y ago
    I think that your "I don't care about languages, I already know js." attitude perfectly describes the problem with many JavaScript programmers. This sort of proud basking in ignorance is shameful, and should be considered unacceptable. It is absurd to limit yourself to learning about just one programming language, especially when that language is so rife with flaws, and perhaps the worst widely-used programming language ever. It is also harmful to create code of any sort when holding such an attitude, even when done as a hobby. It shows a complete lack of care about doing things even remotely correctly. I have to admit, I'm very disappointed to read a sentence like, "I don't care about languages, I already know js." here.
    - lifeformed 13y ago
      I don't care about the tools at all, I just want to make things. If I can have something up and running in 5 minutes, great. I might enjoy it enough to dig deeper and learn something more complicated (maybe even a new language!). But if it takes an hour just to hello world, I probably wouldn't bother. These are just toys I might have fun with. And I do know many other languages, I just don't want to learn a whole new one just so I can play with a new toy. Not everyone needs to be a programmer. Just because someone happens to know js doesn't mean they're interested in being the best programmer in the world. Just because I enjoy brewing my own cup of coffee once in a while, doesn't mean I need to perfect the art of grinding my own beans by hand and crafting the perfect espresso. I got into programming by playing with Lego Mindstorms when I was a kid. The building block coding interface was really fun and intuitive. "Oh no," a purist would sneer, "you can't code like that, it's horrible. Here, read this tome on C and microcontroller programming before you start." No thanks. I got to enjoy the end result immediately (making a fun robot), and then from there I could look further into making something more complicated, which ignited my programming journey.
- Widdershin 13y ago
  I suppose that's a fair comment. That said, I highly doubt there are many people who would need this, but definitely some that would want it.
- diydsp 13y ago
  They're not going to be manipulating low-level devices directly. They're going to be communicating via device drivers from JS. I'll bet $100 the device drivers will all be written in C. The thing people need to learn about Arduino is that it's not important that it's a microcontroller. It's important that it lets you drive and read electrical signals from a PC environment. This lets people do that. Sure, it's like visiting a gated resort in Jamaica on vacation instead of being on your own, but many people like to feel safe and get things done without having to learn too many new skills.
- test-it 13y ago
  I feel sorry you lack basic understanding of linguistics. Any major programming platform today is too complex for a single individual to understand completely. One can spend his time learning several languages (and the platform they run on) or concentrate on a single language. I'd say it's obvious the second choice leads to higher productivity. You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level. Or olympic athletes competing in 10 disciplines. Or lawyer practising 10 domains. But some programmers like to pretend they have 10 languages in their "linguistic toolbox".
  - zhemao 13y ago
    > You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level. Yeah, but a violinist wanting to learn how to play the piano doesn't try to rub the keys with a bow. If you are a Javascript Web Developer, picking up a microcontroller is already going pretty far out of your domain. You might as well learn how to use the tools that were already suited for that task.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    All the professional musicians I know master more than one instrument, even if they show up with just one of them.
  - cenhyperion 13y ago
    >You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level. That's funny because most of the full time musicians I know can play 3-6 instruments really really well. Kind of like how most of the full time programmers I know can program in multiple languages really well.
  - marssaxman 13y ago
    It is not obvious to me; in fact I would argue the opposite. Each new language generally has an interesting new idea or two, and learning a new language can expand your conceptual toolbox even if you never write enough code in it to consider yourself a master. I don't know how I'd count the languages I've used so far, but it is certainly more than ten. I'm not fluent in all of them, but almost every one has taught me something. For the most extreme example, I still can't even read Haskell code, and I've never written a lick of it, but in reading about Haskell I picked up some ideas which have had a profound influence on the way I write code in other languages. One of the reasons I am not a fan of Javascript is that I didn't learn anything from it. All of its bits were obviously cribbed together in haste from other languages. This is no slight on Brendan Eich, who was given something like two weeks to design it, but it's a shame that the most widely used programming language of all time has to be such a mess.

Not sure what you mean by that. I meant exactly what I said: I feel sorry for anyone whose linguistic toolbox is so limited that Javascript is their best option for writing low-level code for manipulating electronic devices. It is hard to imagine a more profound mismatch between the tool and the problem it is supposed to solve.

lifeformed 13y ago
I just want to program a little thingy to do fun stuff, and this is it. I don't care about languages, I already know js.
- PommeDeTerre 13y ago
  I think that your "I don't care about languages, I already know js." attitude perfectly describes the problem with many JavaScript programmers. This sort of proud basking in ignorance is shameful, and should be considered unacceptable. It is absurd to limit yourself to learning about just one programming language, especially when that language is so rife with flaws, and perhaps the worst widely-used programming language ever. It is also harmful to create code of any sort when holding such an attitude, even when done as a hobby. It shows a complete lack of care about doing things even remotely correctly. I have to admit, I'm very disappointed to read a sentence like, "I don't care about languages, I already know js." here.
  - lifeformed 13y ago
    I don't care about the tools at all, I just want to make things. If I can have something up and running in 5 minutes, great. I might enjoy it enough to dig deeper and learn something more complicated (maybe even a new language!). But if it takes an hour just to hello world, I probably wouldn't bother. These are just toys I might have fun with. And I do know many other languages, I just don't want to learn a whole new one just so I can play with a new toy. Not everyone needs to be a programmer. Just because someone happens to know js doesn't mean they're interested in being the best programmer in the world. Just because I enjoy brewing my own cup of coffee once in a while, doesn't mean I need to perfect the art of grinding my own beans by hand and crafting the perfect espresso. I got into programming by playing with Lego Mindstorms when I was a kid. The building block coding interface was really fun and intuitive. "Oh no," a purist would sneer, "you can't code like that, it's horrible. Here, read this tome on C and microcontroller programming before you start." No thanks. I got to enjoy the end result immediately (making a fun robot), and then from there I could look further into making something more complicated, which ignited my programming journey.
Widdershin 13y ago
I suppose that's a fair comment. That said, I highly doubt there are many people who would need this, but definitely some that would want it.
diydsp 13y ago
They're not going to be manipulating low-level devices directly. They're going to be communicating via device drivers from JS. I'll bet $100 the device drivers will all be written in C. The thing people need to learn about Arduino is that it's not important that it's a microcontroller. It's important that it lets you drive and read electrical signals from a PC environment. This lets people do that. Sure, it's like visiting a gated resort in Jamaica on vacation instead of being on your own, but many people like to feel safe and get things done without having to learn too many new skills.
test-it 13y ago
I feel sorry you lack basic understanding of linguistics. Any major programming platform today is too complex for a single individual to understand completely. One can spend his time learning several languages (and the platform they run on) or concentrate on a single language. I'd say it's obvious the second choice leads to higher productivity. You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level. Or olympic athletes competing in 10 disciplines. Or lawyer practising 10 domains. But some programmers like to pretend they have 10 languages in their "linguistic toolbox".
- zhemao 13y ago
  > You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level. Yeah, but a violinist wanting to learn how to play the piano doesn't try to rub the keys with a bow. If you are a Javascript Web Developer, picking up a microcontroller is already going pretty far out of your domain. You might as well learn how to use the tools that were already suited for that task.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  All the professional musicians I know master more than one instrument, even if they show up with just one of them.
- cenhyperion 13y ago
  >You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level. That's funny because most of the full time musicians I know can play 3-6 instruments really really well. Kind of like how most of the full time programmers I know can program in multiple languages really well.
- marssaxman 13y ago
  It is not obvious to me; in fact I would argue the opposite. Each new language generally has an interesting new idea or two, and learning a new language can expand your conceptual toolbox even if you never write enough code in it to consider yourself a master. I don't know how I'd count the languages I've used so far, but it is certainly more than ten. I'm not fluent in all of them, but almost every one has taught me something. For the most extreme example, I still can't even read Haskell code, and I've never written a lick of it, but in reading about Haskell I picked up some ideas which have had a profound influence on the way I write code in other languages. One of the reasons I am not a fan of Javascript is that I didn't learn anything from it. All of its bits were obviously cribbed together in haste from other languages. This is no slight on Brendan Eich, who was given something like two weeks to design it, but it's a shame that the most widely used programming language of all time has to be such a mess.