4 ms·

All the people who benefit from his philanthropy?

by DTrejo 17y ago

nazgulnarsil 17y ago
charity to third world countries doesn't decrease net suffering. when you save a starving man and he has 5 children, all of whom lead miserable lives are you ahead or behind? charity is about signaling your fitness to others. (like everything else)
- derefr 17y ago
  You're being downvoted because, by your logic, genocide can decrease net suffering. I'm not sure if that's incorrect, but I'm sure that no one likes hearing that.
  - paulgb 17y ago
    I think there comes a point where you have to stop using quantitative measures of happiness or suffering and just commend anyone who makes a genuine effort to do something for what they think is right.
- dfranke 17y ago
  charity is about signaling your fitness to others While this is undoubtedly a factor, it fails to be a complete explanation, given that much charity is anonymous, and anonymous charity has no obvious utility for signaling. It would also imply that those who are happily married would tend to be significantly less charitable, which AFAIK is not true.
  - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
    you're making the mistake of thinking that we're fitness maximizers rather than adaptation executers. We don't stop engaging in fitness related activities just because they dont have any utility in our current situation.
- whughes 17y ago
  Not everyone in the third world is starving. If you give out medicine and a poor person survives and has children, who also survive and live relatively normal lives, then I view that as a net gain. It's a mistake to simplify charity to 'giving starving people food.' Gates does a lot of work in healthcare, financial assistance, disaster relief, and even charity work here in the US. Most of the beneficiaries of these efforts may be impoverished, but that does not mean that they can't lead fulfilling lives.
- DocSavage 17y ago
  A number of Gates foundation efforts are toward decreasing the misery of those children. I've also been impressed by the large number of micro-grants given to researchers for far out ideas. That kind of charity takes a page out of the positive Black Swan theory -- if you play a lot of small bets in a field where some random finding has a huge impact, you're maximizing your upside. Your comment makes it sound like the Gates foundation is just setting up food kitchens.
- megaduck 17y ago
  Gosh, I hope that you're trolling. Otherwise, that's a very lonely and unhappy way to view the world. It's also an incredible misinterpretation of modern philanthropy. Charitable organizations like the Gates foundation aren't interested in quick "band-aid" fixes, for exactly the problem you raised. They're interested in long-term sustainable programs that don't just help today, but also improve life for future generations. A good example is malaria eradication. The Gates foundation has targeted malaria for complete destruction on a global scale. This means assisting current victims, yes. However, if they meet their goal even partially, the lives of future generations will be improved. Permanently. A good anecdote about Bill Gates is when Douglas Adams went to solicit funds for a Mountain Gorilla conservation program. Gates asked how much it would cost. Adams started giving him estimates for the first year, and then Gates cut him off. He said, "No. How much to solve the Mountain Gorilla problem. Forever." That's the current attitude. If it doesn't work past the current generation, it's probably not worth doing. We've acknowledged that, and have moved on.
  - nazgulnarsil 17y ago
    the amount of funds being devoted to actual philanthropy vs the kind of band aid charity I'm talking about is like david and goliath. charity is a huge industry.
  - DocSavage 17y ago
    That's a great anecdote. I did a Google search to get more info on that meeting but couldn't find anything. How did you come by it?
zimbabwe 17y ago
You're separating Gates from his company. Microsoft started off as a fresh and exciting company, and it's gotten a bit stinky. So his case is valid.
- aswanson 17y ago
  All companies, given enough time, become stinky. Google already has a malodourous air about it. That Gates built one that still exists, that was formed 34 years ago in the tech space, deserves some measure of respect.
  - zimbabwe 17y ago
    Google was on my mind when I wrote this. They've already lost it. Microsoft isn't necessarily worthy of contempt, but I don't respect what they do now. They've lost it. Apple hasn't, at least not yet.
  - mlinsey 17y ago
    That's exactly what they are saying. The original point was that you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. Someone ventured Gates as a possible exception, but if you look solely at Gates the businessman, he follows the rule too. I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with here.
- ciupicri 17y ago
  Let's not forget about Bill Gates' famous 1976 letter to the Homebrew Computer Club http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_01/gatesletter.html http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_...

All the people who benefit from his philanthropy?

by DTrejo 17y ago

All the people who benefit from his philanthropy?

charity to third world countries doesn't decrease net suffering. when you save a starving man and he has 5 children, all of whom lead miserable lives are you ahead or behind? charity is about signaling your fitness to others. (like everything else)

derefr 17y ago
You're being downvoted because, by your logic, genocide can decrease net suffering. I'm not sure if that's incorrect, but I'm sure that no one likes hearing that.
- paulgb 17y ago
  I think there comes a point where you have to stop using quantitative measures of happiness or suffering and just commend anyone who makes a genuine effort to do something for what they think is right.
dfranke 17y ago
charity is about signaling your fitness to others While this is undoubtedly a factor, it fails to be a complete explanation, given that much charity is anonymous, and anonymous charity has no obvious utility for signaling. It would also imply that those who are happily married would tend to be significantly less charitable, which AFAIK is not true.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  you're making the mistake of thinking that we're fitness maximizers rather than adaptation executers. We don't stop engaging in fitness related activities just because they dont have any utility in our current situation.
whughes 17y ago
Not everyone in the third world is starving. If you give out medicine and a poor person survives and has children, who also survive and live relatively normal lives, then I view that as a net gain. It's a mistake to simplify charity to 'giving starving people food.' Gates does a lot of work in healthcare, financial assistance, disaster relief, and even charity work here in the US. Most of the beneficiaries of these efforts may be impoverished, but that does not mean that they can't lead fulfilling lives.
DocSavage 17y ago
A number of Gates foundation efforts are toward decreasing the misery of those children. I've also been impressed by the large number of micro-grants given to researchers for far out ideas. That kind of charity takes a page out of the positive Black Swan theory -- if you play a lot of small bets in a field where some random finding has a huge impact, you're maximizing your upside. Your comment makes it sound like the Gates foundation is just setting up food kitchens.
megaduck 17y ago
Gosh, I hope that you're trolling. Otherwise, that's a very lonely and unhappy way to view the world. It's also an incredible misinterpretation of modern philanthropy. Charitable organizations like the Gates foundation aren't interested in quick "band-aid" fixes, for exactly the problem you raised. They're interested in long-term sustainable programs that don't just help today, but also improve life for future generations. A good example is malaria eradication. The Gates foundation has targeted malaria for complete destruction on a global scale. This means assisting current victims, yes. However, if they meet their goal even partially, the lives of future generations will be improved. Permanently. A good anecdote about Bill Gates is when Douglas Adams went to solicit funds for a Mountain Gorilla conservation program. Gates asked how much it would cost. Adams started giving him estimates for the first year, and then Gates cut him off. He said, "No. How much to solve the Mountain Gorilla problem. Forever." That's the current attitude. If it doesn't work past the current generation, it's probably not worth doing. We've acknowledged that, and have moved on.
- nazgulnarsil 17y ago
  the amount of funds being devoted to actual philanthropy vs the kind of band aid charity I'm talking about is like david and goliath. charity is a huge industry.
- DocSavage 17y ago
  That's a great anecdote. I did a Google search to get more info on that meeting but couldn't find anything. How did you come by it?

zimbabwe 17y ago

You're separating Gates from his company. Microsoft started off as a fresh and exciting company, and it's gotten a bit stinky. So his case is valid.

aswanson 17y ago
All companies, given enough time, become stinky. Google already has a malodourous air about it. That Gates built one that still exists, that was formed 34 years ago in the tech space, deserves some measure of respect.
- zimbabwe 17y ago
  Google was on my mind when I wrote this. They've already lost it. Microsoft isn't necessarily worthy of contempt, but I don't respect what they do now. They've lost it. Apple hasn't, at least not yet.
- mlinsey 17y ago
  That's exactly what they are saying. The original point was that you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. Someone ventured Gates as a possible exception, but if you look solely at Gates the businessman, he follows the rule too. I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with here.
ciupicri 17y ago
Let's not forget about Bill Gates' famous 1976 letter to the Homebrew Computer Club http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_01/gatesletter.html http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_...